I just bought a used 89 mkiii and it had no 3000 pipe. Just a long 3 inch pipe w/ a apex bov twin chamber and coming straight out the throttle body to the IC. Im putting in a used 7mgte from canada and it came with the 3000 pipe and was wondering if it would be better to use the 3000 pipe or what? thanks for any replies
If no 3000 pipe...
- Thread starter luvs2slide
- Start date
If your saying you have a 3inch hard pipe kit. Meaning that all the pipes for the I/C are metal not plastic(i don't know how new you are to these cars) Keep the hard pipes. Plus the 3000 pipe is more restrictive.
I've seen it posted a few times that the 3000 pipe is restrictive?
Are people talking about where it's reduced to 2.25"?
If so I think people are forgetting the system will only flow as fast as the point of greatest restriction which I sort of doubt would be the 3000 pipe.
(only guessing here that either one of the stock IC pipes or even the stock IC itself would be the bottleneck as I don't and have never owned the stock parts)
I haven't seen a compressor map for a CT26 but I seriously doubt it's flowing anything near or above 500 cfm and this through a 2.25" pipe is well below critical speed "500 cfm = 205 mph = 0.26 mach"
Really not trying to be a cock just trying to understand the stock system.
Are people talking about where it's reduced to 2.25"?
If so I think people are forgetting the system will only flow as fast as the point of greatest restriction which I sort of doubt would be the 3000 pipe.
(only guessing here that either one of the stock IC pipes or even the stock IC itself would be the bottleneck as I don't and have never owned the stock parts)
I haven't seen a compressor map for a CT26 but I seriously doubt it's flowing anything near or above 500 cfm and this through a 2.25" pipe is well below critical speed "500 cfm = 205 mph = 0.26 mach"
Really not trying to be a cock just trying to understand the stock system.
If you measure the I.D. of the 3000 pipe inlet it is 1 7/8". The only other part of the whole intake system that is this small is the turbo outlet. IMO, if the 3" pipe fits, use it.
IJ. said:
IJ- i think youre forgetting something...theres really about 3 or 4 restrictions in the flow of the IC piping... the 3k pipe would be one, the fender pipe is another, the metal elbow/bracket for the lower piping is another...
i think the main thing is LIMITING restrictions....cause obviously when you can reduce the number of restrcitions you will have better flow... 2 restrictions is better then 3 or 4... and obviously none is best
get rid of that math stuff and look at logic :naughty: :drink1:
I have a full set of custom made 2.75" SS hard pipes but!!!! We keep saying its a restriction due to the 3000 pipes bottle neck. A restriction is going from big to small. The 3000 pipe goes from small to big!!! remember its on the intake side! there for it can't be a restriction. (imho).
:drink1:
:drink1:
LOL in that case my car has 7 zillion rear wheel kila zaps and 18 elephants of torque LOL :drink1:
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TSM: Gas speed through a 3" really drops off which might be why people perceive "Lag" when they start modding, even at 600 hp crank 20 psi on a bigger turbo (gt35r) we're only looking at 500>600 cfm which is well under critical through 2.5" pipes.
P5150: None of your system is stock though!
Ideal: LOL as I said I don't have any of the stock parts so was really only guessing but as I said the entire system will only ever flow as much as the point of greatest restriction!
It's not until the gas flow approaches mach .4 that the friction in each restriction becomes a factor! (Be pushing to get there on a CT)
As soon as you mod one part you have to look at the system as a whole again.
(Math has a place Jay but so does common sense and logic)
M3TS: LMAO was that measured on a DynoJet?
P5150: None of your system is stock though
!Ideal: LOL as I said I don't have any of the stock parts so was really only guessing but as I said the entire system will only ever flow as much as the point of greatest restriction!
It's not until the gas flow approaches mach .4 that the friction in each restriction becomes a factor! (Be pushing to get there on a CT)
As soon as you mod one part you have to look at the system as a whole again.
(Math has a place Jay but so does common sense and logic)
M3TS: LMAO was that measured on a DynoJet?
Mk3 TurboS said:
yes it goes from small to big, but think before the 3k pipe. it's big, then bottlenecks to small. thats a restriction. the turbo is trying to push air into a small opening from a big one. when i get hardpipes made, ima get rid of that 3k pipe.
-shaeff
IJ. said:
I have full 3" IC piping on my car and absolutely no complaints about spool. In fact, the larger piping really helped spool up. You need velocity at the head because the air has to squeeze past the valves, but smaller piping elsewhere is just a restriction. That could just be my opinion. I have no proof, just theories. All I know is I wouldn't trade my 3" IC piping for anything. My advice: try them both and decide for yourself.
ok i havent done proper measurements but how wide is air inlet on the throttle body vs the 3000 pipe where it connects to. if its the same wouldnt the throttle body just be considered a restriciton?
and on a stock system wouldnt the most restrictive part be that damn flat plastic elbow thats over the dipsitck.
also i'm not a math major but isnt it true for air that when you push something into a slightly smaller hole the pressrue and speed increases. like your thumb on the tip of a garden hose. yes its more work but its shooting out allot faster right? if you want to shoot water with that garden hose through a window just holding it out there wont do it. putting your thumb on the tip and shooting the pressured water will get it in there allot faster? i dunno but wouldnt it kind of help a bit for air to be shooting faster into the throttle body like that?
these are just geusses im just wondering out loud.
and on a stock system wouldnt the most restrictive part be that damn flat plastic elbow thats over the dipsitck.
also i'm not a math major but isnt it true for air that when you push something into a slightly smaller hole the pressrue and speed increases. like your thumb on the tip of a garden hose. yes its more work but its shooting out allot faster right? if you want to shoot water with that garden hose through a window just holding it out there wont do it. putting your thumb on the tip and shooting the pressured water will get it in there allot faster? i dunno but wouldnt it kind of help a bit for air to be shooting faster into the throttle body like that?
these are just geusses im just wondering out loud.
If I didnt use the 3000 pipe (and used a hard pipe to the IC), would I still need to keep the 2 hard pipe the are on top and on the bottom of the 3k pipe? I think the bottom pipe connects the two outlets nipples on top of the valve cover. Or would I have to use any other pipes other than the 3k pipe? Thanks for the help every1.
americanjebus said:
the large end of the 3k pipe is about equal in diameter to the TB.
nah, i'd think its the 3k pipe and fender pipe. that fender pipe is funky lookin'.
try thinking in these terms instead:
you want to fill a beer bottle really fast, with beer of course. now, we all know how small a normal beer bottle's mouth is. so you put a funnel in the beer bottle, and fill the funnel with beer, it would slowly go into the bottle, due to the funnel. the funnel acts like the bottleneck of the 3k pipe.
now, if you had a large beer mug, you could just pour the beer right in! no restriction, and it'd fill up super fast!
it all comes down to how fast you want that beer.
-shaeff
shaeff said:
no way.... go look at the stock metal elbow in between the rubber pipe from the ic and the rubber pipe to the compressor housing on the turbo...its the same piece that has a bolt hole to secure the piping to the chassis...
NOW...tell me that isnt the smallest piece of shit youve ever seen lol :thumbsdow
Idealsupra said:
oops! yeah, i meant to reiterate what you had previously stated, but i forgot to mention that crappy little elbow. you sir, are correct, as usual
thats the smallest piece of poo i've ever seen! its a funky shape too, like ovaled or something...
-shaeff
americanjebus said:
Yep. That's the whole velocity thing. But if the pressure and speed of air increases, so does the temp. There is always a trade off with everything, and I too am just guessing. I have a 60-1 upgraded CT which can fill up the 3" piping pretty quick I'm sure. I haven't dyno'd any setup nor have I tried the 3" piping with the stock turbo, so maybe the big pipe could be detrimental with the stocker. Dunno....but I love my 3" pipe :bigthumb: