7MGE ITBs

[sarinas_dragons]

I'm fixing to dyno the 5/6MGE versions.

I'm building a manifold for the 7MGEs to test next.


For the Nissan L series

You can see the built-in ports for nitrous-oxide. I'm corresponding with Nitrous Express to test this. I have 3.0 build in progress right now and the 6Ms share the 7M bottom end. I just haven't done the cam, valve, and intake charge studies for the 7MGE head. It will coordinate time-wise, though.

If you've read any of my threads here you know to rip me a new fuckin' hole. I will make improvements and implement suggestions so I dare you........


N/A and spray ftw

 

[BlackMKIII]

I've always wondered a few things about ITBs.

Obviously it uses a MAP sensor, right? Okay. LOL.

But how do you filter the air going in? Rocks and debris = not good.

 

[sarinas_dragons]

They are getting the plenum parts ready. I will update you when I get them. Here's their 4 cylinder image-

vacuum log is here

http://www.extrudabody.com/Products/Accessories.html

I want to run tps load values. It is much simpler. Maf and map are for dorks. I mean turbos. I'm just being mean. There is ffim plenum manifold if you are handicapped. I'm building a turbo manifold with new tech on volumes. ITBs will make a big difference. Stock will have twice as fast throttle response just due to the closeness of the butterflies compared to stock's remoteness.

If you know how to study and want to know where is the N/A power:

http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?p=392302#post392302

http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=30308

http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=18104

 

[BlackMKIII]

http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=30308

That first post made my head spin. Damn dude. Much respect.

 

[Doward]

:rofl:

Amazing what you can do with math, isn't it? Damn good work, and keep it up.

One question though - my calcs have always had cfm = displacement (in cubic inches) * rpm / 3456 (well, 1728x2, since it's a 4 stroke design) * VE

Why are you using 3464 instead of 3456?

 

[Bondango]

I've always wondered a few things about ITBs.

Obviously it uses a MAP sensor, right? Okay. LOL.

But how do you filter the air going in? Rocks and debris = not good.

usually an Air Filter :naughty:

I'd love to try ITB's like that on a GTE, but i guess space restriction is our downfall

 

[BlackMKIII]

usually an Air Filter :naughty:

OIC. KTHX. ::dunce::

 

[sarinas_dragons]

It is a preferred value in aviation and I sometimes forget where I am. S0 typo. I go back and re-read and make corrections but I still miss details. I usually have a disclaimer because talented men read my posts.

Unveiled, talented man.

I probably will get you to find other errors and for this I thank you. Would you mind double-checking the intake-charge and injection and ignition calculus? I'm only asking for 28 moments each degree for 60 degrees. Only 1680.

The hand written notes are my excuse. They are notes. I thought the ITBs would be in last Tuesday so I rushed.

 

[sarinas_dragons]

http://www.extrudabody.biz/servlet/the-Manifolds/Categories

dammit, I was sent a picture of the ffim and it must be in my emails.

I'll try and find it.

 

[Doward]

It is a preferred value in aviation and I sometimes forget to where I am. S0 typo. I go back and re-read and make corrections but I still miss details. I usually have a disclaimer because talented men read my posts.

Unveiled, talented man.

I probably will get you to find other errors and for this I thank you. Would you mind double-checking the intake-charge and injection and ignition calculus? I'm only asking for 28 moments each degree for 60 degrees. Only 1680.

The hand written notes are my excuse. They are notes. I though the ITBs would be in last Tuesday so I rushed.

I'm in the middle of my wiring harness, but I'll look over it tonight. That was the only error I caught on initial look over, but I'll admit, I started skimming just to get an idea of if you were actually taking intake pulses into consideration, or winging it

I'm happy to say that it looks like you damn well know what's going on. A tuned runner ITB system is the shit on a naturally aspirated motor - even better, when you actually take the time to map out your valve timing events vs the velocity/mass of the air charge! Work with your engine harmonics, instead of trying to tell the engine what to do, and you'll both be much happier

 

[sarinas_dragons]

Lovell and everything is already done. But I am assmembering a 5MGE Tuning Manual for consumption and the data is for-real gathered there. These are notes and excerpts. I have the data for the design of four camshafts, too. Studying allows me to ignore the constraints of manufacture because I fantasize so. I'm way ahead of myself.

I found out if I acted smart, smart men would let me listen to them. I've heard alot, too many, secrets and been fiendishly teased to be smart and figure it out for myself. SAE International for starters.

Our engines are latin and dead. Will this cpr revive them? You be the judge.

There was thread of ill-humor about my hyper-hyphenation in these matters. A Group A racer has his car apart and back and forth flow ideas.

 

[Doward]

Noticed you edited post #3 (you had both links 2 and 3 identical) and I see link 3 seems to be where you get into your calculations.

Everything looks good so far. Have you modeled the flame from after the point of spark ignition? Don't forget the exhaust stroke in your calcs.

Link me to the posts with your calculations, and I'll run through them tonight. I just found the wiring information I needed, but I'll check back later!

 

[sarinas_dragons]

"I'd love to try ITB's like that on a GTE, but i guess space restriction is our downfall "

Not so. The manifold and ITBs are so short. The manifold runners are individually cut and spaced to suit individual needs on my manifolds. They can angle up, curve using bends instead of straight tube. Just imagine it. If you can see it in your minds eye I'll come get it.

 

[sarinas_dragons]

A student is doing them T I style. The calculator was otherwise useless and cumbersome.

I think you are in possession of such treasure and calllllllllllllllllllll your ass out.

Besides, anyone can waste two days doing cylinder-fills for piston-postion in crank-degrees after-bottom-dead-center versus intake-charge-speed and cramming one hundred-thirty-five pecent volumetric-efficiency. (eleven hyphens)

Where I am is the stock cam limits. This dyno will prove obscure math. Once the dyno is done there is a new RABIDCHIMP header and four sets of cams, and our RACER, Pauter rods and Wisecos, big singles, stock twins, and twin CT26.

But I hope to get my hands on one of the new nitrous ecus. Claims of spray timed with valve events, user chosen torque band and overall engine management integrated.

Yay for me.

 

[Doward]

I think you mean after top dead center, or before bottom dead center.

Not much intake charge on the exhaust stroke

Have you had a chance to measure the stock cam duration? I've been wanting to, but am not going to do so until I get the engine out of the machine shop.

 

[sarinas_dragons]

huff huff huff huffffff he used that big sign on me in political forums

No I meant after bottom-dead-center the number of degrees of captured volume. The 6 and 7MGEs are 88 percent volumetrically efficient.

The duration is the same as the 1UZE and a favorite for Toyota for their efficiency cams across the line. Clearance ramps and before and after ramps on our engines are asymetric due to our rocker arm design.

From the lobe to end of both ramps I use 84 degrees to describe valve lift. But it varies what one calls flow, incipient flow, opening etc. The clearance ramps are really 32 degrees no matter what.

 

[IJ.]

Kenny: A bud here has an EFI Business you might find helpful.

http://www.efihardware.com/efi_main_page.html

 

[Doward]

huff huff huff huffffff he used tht big sign on me in political forums

No I meant after bottom-dead-center the number of degrees of captured volume. The 6 and 7MGEs are 88 percent volumetrically efficient.

The duration is the same as the 1UZE and a favorite for Toyota for their efficiency cams across the line. Clearance ramps and before and after ramps on our engines are asymetric due to our rocker arm design.

From the lobe to end of both ramps I use 84 degrees to describe valve lift. But it varies what one calls , flow incipient flow, opening etc. The clearance ramps are really 32 degrees no matter what.

DUH. I was thinking 180 degrees out from you

 

[7Mboost]

Damn that is sexy, if I had an NA I would love to do this, I'd love to know how much more power you could get out of this as well, keep up the good work. BTW would you be interested in selling kits like these?

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

Man, you guys are making my head hurt with all this tech talk. Very interesting though, would like to see a 7m motor running on it. I wonder how much something like this would cost? And how much reto-tuning you would have to do as far as ECU, piggyback, etc.? Would it be too involved for the average gearhead, like me, to do? Or would it take a specialized gearhead/tuner like Sarinas, Doward, IJ, etc.?