The Fiery Debate: Stick with 7M Power?... or swap for 1JZ/2JZ

[gurley0916]

PS: Where the heck is that shower gif of yours from?

Haha I found it on another forum and had to have it. Kristen bell is my celebrity crush I think its from one of her tv shows

Anyways did we ever hear what the OP's horse power goal was?

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

 

[JustinSane]

wow so lots of love for the 2J swap, some love for building the 7M, and no love for the 1J yet!

any 1j-ers out there that stand behind their decision to go 2.5 and willing to lay down some reasons why?

I have a 1JZ. I dont have one single bit of issue with that desicion. For 2500 CAD, i bought a 1JZ with an R154 and full swap from a soarer (including driveshaft), also equipped with mkiv injectors and a greddy t78 turbo kit. It layed down 432 RWHP on a dynojet. It has since been sitting on the floor of my shop waiting some work, and a swap into my sc400.

I also have 2 7mgtes (for my supra), one has a blown head gasket (go figure), it was like that when i bought the whole car for $650. I have since bought another 7MGTE for $300 with a ct26 and a turbo diff. The CT26 that was on my original engine had cracks all over the turbine housing. also a common problem with this engine. However, my supra will be keeping a 7MGTE powerplant for now.

I also plan on grabbing a 2JZ GTE that I will eventually swap into the supra. Mostly because its a solid proven platform. Cost is definetly the issue. A friend of mine build his mkiv and put hks GT28 twin kit on it. the kit alone cost over 10Gs. I hear his car put 520 rwhp on a dynojet.

its all about what YOU want. who gives a rats ass what every other person out there thinks is cool/good/fast. They are all cool/good/fast. more a matter of what you want out of it.

"1UZFE is the 4 liter V8 from the LS/SC/GS400. Early engine start with 250hp/260tq from 92-95 (I am using the SC400 for this comparison), 260hp/270tq for 96-97, and the 98-00 VVTI motor makes 290hp/300tq, but the VVTI motors are stupid expensive. You can find the 92-95 motors for next to nothing (I have one sitting in my garage). You could use an LS or GS motor, but you will be spending a couple hundred dollars on the oil pan/pickup setup for the Supra. The SC has this already. Needless to say, this is probably the rarest swap, but its gaining more followers every month. The best thing is, the 1UZ will run 400-600K or more miles if properly maintained. Its a workhorse of an engine, and will treat you right. If you do forced induction, use a 92-95 motor. They have thicker rods and pistons. There is now a ton of info on this swap. It also helps that the 1UZ makes right at 200tq at 2000rpm as well. See the attached movie for some badassness"

This is also some good info. And its true that the 92-95 motors are the better ones. The rods are much larger than later years. I have done some reasearch and it appears that an unopened 1UZ can handle as much as 400+wheel horsepower in a sc (with power fueling and forced induction). I may go this route when I swap the 1JZ into the SC, since the 1UZ is so clean, it should land in the supra eventually. lol

 

[Nick M]

With all the Supras I have owned, I wonder why I never have all of these "common problems"....(rhetorical)

 

[wiseco7mgt]

With all the Supras I have owned, I wonder why I never have all of these "common problems"....(rhetorical)

Maybe because you shop somewhere other than e-bay?

---------- Post added at 01:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

It's been said a million times, the biggest problem with Supras are there owners. I've noticed when the mark 4's first came out and only people with money bought them they were bulletproof, now they are cheap and being bought by the less cashed up buyer they are being bolted up with poor quality parts and are failing because of this.
A 2j might be the best option overall for a build but it will die just as quick as a 7m if you treat it with the usual ignorance and cheap out on the critical items.

 

[Poodles]

I'd go 1UZ if it was 100% bolt-in, only because it would be a fun reliable car. Don't need a ton of power anymore...

 

[IJ.]

The other thing to consider is everything reaches a tipping point sooner or later where demand exceeds supply and prices go up, expect good 7M Blocks and Heads to go up in value as they become scarce (I ended up buying new as after checking 5 of each they were ALL junk)

1J swaps will follow suit as people have noticed Front cuts are getting almost impossible to source, the gap will narrow price wise between a 1 and 2J swap so why wouldn't people take advantage of an extra 500cc to help move the minimum 1500Kg Mk3 barge

 

[soapra]

Case in point..
I want to see this stock 1JZGTE that can lay down 500 on a dynojet. I will give you my house and pay the mortgage if you do. And since your point was that for 3800 you can buy a 1JZ that lays down less than half of that on a dynojet, why interject the point?

Let me see pics of the house to see if I like it first, as I have been at 500 RWHP on a stock internals 1jz and did it for a long time too. Lets say about 100,000 miles to be exact.

: )


Ninja Edit:

I have plenty of single turbo MK4 friends that see my tailights with my little 1jz so what give people the idea that the 2jz is automatically faster.

 

[Poodles]

The other thing to consider is everything reaches a tipping point sooner or later where demand exceeds supply and prices go up, expect good 7M Blocks and Heads to go up in value as they become scarce (I ended up buying new as after checking 5 of each they were ALL junk)

1J swaps will follow suit as people have noticed Front cuts are getting almost impossible to source, the gap will narrow price wise between a 1 and 2J swap so why wouldn't people take advantage of an extra 500cc to help move the minimum 1500Kg Mk3 barge

Thus my comment on 2JZGE-T. Can pick up a GE for very cheap locally these days. 1J's aren't cost effective anymore IMHO, the quality of JDM engines has gone way down in recent years.

 

[Dylan JZ]

Let me see pics of the house to see if I like it first, as I have been at 500 RWHP on a stock internals 1jz and did it for a long time too. Lets say about 100,000 miles to be exact.

: )


Ninja Edit:

I have plenty of single turbo MK4 friends that see my tailights with my little 1jz so what give people the idea that the 2jz is automatically faster.

I have 2 friends that did ~500whp and 450wtq stock internals for ages (one sold his car, and the other is putting his motor into another car). using that level of power as a comparison is a joke..

1Js do this all day everyday here, Japan, Aussyland, UK, and tracks across the globe. It will always cost money, but it's not too hard to achieve.


Motor choice is always about what you want to do, not about others. Opinions are great, but they're like kittens, everyone's always giving them away. Most of the 1J owners that have read this thread are probably not saying anything because they know if they do, it will do little to solve or convince anyone of anything. So often the fact that it's a 2.5L is criticized for not having enough power (whp, wtq, power under the curve). I can however tell you this, there are plenty of cars like those listed above that will tear you a new ass if you do not respect them. The 1J easily keeps up with the 7M or 2J to a certain point, and folks really need to realize this or just escape reality all together.


The important piece: like others have said correctly, these days it no longer makes a whole lot of sense. The 2J is the same price, and JZA70 front-clips are near unheard of anymore for a variety of reasons. On the other hand, the 7M was a great motor for it's time and still can be with a lot of hardwork and patience, but it comes down to how much catch-up and fix this design flaw here and there you end up wanting to play. At the same time, at least one already has the motor and doesn't have to swap and so forth.

 

[wiseco7mgt]

Let me see pics of the house to see if I like it first, as I have been at 500 RWHP on a stock internals 1jz and did it for a long time too. Lets say about 100,000 miles to be exact.

: )


I have plenty of single turbo MK4 friends that see my tailights with my little 1jz so what give people the idea that the 2jz is automatically faster.

Did you make this on your stock twins? he was talking stock engine not stock internals.
I used to have 1jz supra as well as a 7m and i liked both but they were two very different motors and both had there strong points.
stock for stock the 7m had the edge off the line and the 1j had the top end. Modify both and everything changes.

 

[VegaSupra]

I have 2 friends that did ~500whp and 450wtq stock internals for ages (one sold his car, and the other is putting his motor into another car). using that level of power as a comparison is a joke..

1Js do this all day everyday here, Japan, Aussyland, UK, and tracks across the globe. It will always cost money, but it's not too hard to achieve.


Motor choice is always about what you want to do, not about others. Opinions are great, but they're like kittens, everyone's always giving them away. Most of the 1J owners that have read this thread are probably not saying anything because they know if they do, it will do little to solve or convince anyone of anything. So often the fact that it's a 2.5L is criticized for not having enough power (whp, wtq, power under the curve). I can however tell you this, there are plenty of cars like those listed above that will tear you a new ass if you do not respect them. The 1J easily keeps up with the 7M or 2J to a certain point, and folks really need to realize this or just escape reality all together.


The important piece: like others have said correctly, these days it no longer makes a whole lot of sense. The 2J is the same price, and JZA70 front-clips are near unheard of anymore for a variety of reasons. On the other hand, the 7M was a great motor for it's time and still can be with a lot of hardwork and patience, but it comes down to how much catch-up and fix this design flaw here and there you end up wanting to play. At the same time, at least one already has the motor and doesn't have to swap and so forth.

Nice comments Dylan...

I guess I'll just have to go to a big Supra meet and ride in all varieties! I would love to see what it feels like to drive a properly biult 1J. Hey what's with the front clips? I don't know what that is. Sounds like a certain piece that you must have in order to swap for a 1J. Is it impossible to come by these days? I can imagine that it's written up about pretty well in the 1J section. I just saw it in the comments here and figured I'd ask real quick.

 

[S.A. supra]

Front clip is the dash forward Jza70. Jza70 is a supra from over seas that came with the 1jz stock. It comes with everything you need for a 1jz swap r154, bellhousing, brackets, ext.... that way all you have to do is pull and replace. Everything bolts up because it came out of a supra. Makes the swap a whole lot easier and cheaper. Then you can sell parts you don't need off of it to make some money back.

---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 AM ----------

http://montreal.kijiji.ca/c-cars-ve...NE-1JZGTE-FRONT-CLIP-JZA70-W0QQAdIdZ238567466

 

[Nick M]

Let me see pics of the house to see if I like it first, as I have been at 500 RWHP on a stock internals 1jz and did it for a long time too. Lets say about 100,000 miles to be exact.

As though that is some sort of qualifier. The 7M record (because breaking it isn't important) is over 700rwhp. Stock means original parallel turbo system, exhaust, and boost control set to 12 psi, or whereever it is.

 

[VegaSupra]

As though that is some sort of qualifier. The 7M record (because breaking it isn't important) is over 700rwhp. Stock means original parallel turbo system, exhaust, and boost control set to 12 psi, or whereever it is.

You can lay down 700whp with only 12psi? I thought you had to be up around 20+psi to put out that kind of power, even with a gorilla sized turbo.

 

[gurley0916]

Re read what he wrote lol 7m stock internal is 700hp without breaking...stock 1j is parallel twins at 12psi...cant make 500 at that level.

 

[VegaSupra]

Re read what he wrote lol 7m stock internal is 700hp without breaking...stock 1j is parallel twins at 12psi...cant make 500 at that level.

I see. He was referring to 1J. Got it.

 

[honeydew]

I've been in a properly built 7M and it can haul and be reliable if all variables are taken care of properly. I agree with what someone else said "it sounds meaner" and has all kinds of torque. For the street it's a nice powerplant and then you get the bragging rights of having a 7M in your MK3, which actually does matter to some of us.

The reason I didn't go with a 7M build is purely because of the head gasket issue. In order for me to do the same with a 2J as a 7M would have cost me the same amount of money. I bought the 2J for $1600 and a 7M would have cost me $800. I still would have needed everything else. Save the harness and the bell housing. 2J has oil squirters aimed at the bottom of the pistons, thought that was pretty cool. 2J has more meat between coolant holes in the block. I kinda lean toward there are more 2J's that are in good condition than 7M's. To be honest I never thought of a 1J. I guess I never wanted to remove my 3.0L badge off my car.

Personally if I were you and had this decision in front of me I would opt to push it off a cliff and move on with my life.

 

[Nick M]

You can lay down 700whp with only 12psi?

Go re-read the posts, and those leading to it.

 

[VegaSupra]

Go re-read the posts, and those leading to it.

already addressed. see 2 comments above. thanks nick.

 

[Nick M]

already addressed. see 2 comments above. thanks nick.

No problem. Enjoy the car you built. It is yours.