Cant figure this one out :(, help!!

Sside

Sside

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May 20, 2008
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About a month ago I went to try and pass inspection only to find out my car would fail in a really really bad way... The car has no codes, no check engine light and was running perfectly fine... I had just put in a new 57 trim from driftmotion..... The car was doing this before with the old turbo, I expected all white smoke to go away but I still have it when I start the car and when the car berely starts to be driven... From there on the car does not smoke, atleast I cant see it thru my mirrors and I have only seen someone drive the car around the block..... A friend told me by looking at the inspection sheet that I was running rich, I changed the O2 sensor but no luck... I am stuck, I have changed the intake manifolds, I have all vsvs, all vacum lines apear to be fine.... Help?

Here is a video of when I started my car early this morning... (click on picture to pull up link to video :) )



And the results from emission....
p1623550_2.jpg



If anyone has a clue to whts wrong I would greatly appriciate it, been trying to get this car running right for nearly 3 years now.... Rebuilt Block and Head, New 57 Trim agh, I have basically changed almost every part of the original engine..... :( The car seems to be idling a bit rough as time has passed, even at normal running temp it idles at 1000 to 1200 but once you take it out for a spin and put it in park it will go to its smooth 500 to 600.... Thanks to all in advance for any input, all is appriciated :)....
 
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supraguy@aol

supraguy@aol

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Dec 30, 2005
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NOX is way low- I wish that was my reading.
A really rich mixture would keep combustion temps low, helping to reduce NOX, not to mention bump up CO. Is this not correct?

ps- you mentioned the turbo, but what are you doing with fuel mods?
 
Sside

Sside

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supraguy@aol;1623608 said:
NOX is way low- I wish that was my reading.
A really rich mixture would keep combustion temps low, helping to reduce NOX, not to mention bump up CO. Is this not correct?

ps- you mentioned the turbo, but what are you doing with fuel mods?
Click to expand...


The Nox being low is good? Sorry I have no idea wht any of those readings mean lol :(.... No fuel mods, everything fuel wise is stock... The very last thing I did to this car was shaefs knock sensor rewire kit.... I had to pull out Throttle Body and normally when I do that the tps goes off.... But this problem was present before the rewire.... I dont loose oil, I dont have a boost leak that would throw off a code, oil is clean, I am not loosing coolant.. The car does release some awful smells thou, that of a rich condition... EGR? Thanks alot for the reply by the way :)...

Thanks as well to the two prior, appriciate any help I get....
 
mkiiichip

mkiiichip

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Sep 10, 2007
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Your readings are;

12.3 AFR at 25 mph
12.5 AFR at 15 mph

Thats painfully rich. You need to be somewhere around 14.7 AFR to correctly light off a cat, and pass smog. Remember these are cruse readings, those are semi acceptable readings for boost, but you will never pass smog with cruse reading like that.

There is a major EFI input failure, causing the full rich condition. And the TPS needs adjustment after removal. So start there. Also they are commonly installed and adjusted incorrectly, so read up.

EDIT: incorrect installation can cause your issue, incorrect adjustment will not.
 
Sside

Sside

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Is it safe to drive the car like this? or should I garage it and work at it untill I fix this.... I guess Iw ills tart with adjusting the tps, but then efi? how do I even begin on that....
 
Sside

Sside

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90T04;1623808 said:
I'd start by checking Vf

p1623856_1.gif
Click to expand...

Thanks alot, I dont have reader like that but I have a couple of friends that do... I will show them the picture you posted on how to test it out....

This link as well
http://www.well.com/user/mosk/Vfsignal.htm

Did a little research now that I have a clue somewhat... I wonder if any of my wiring is messed up since alot of the engine components have been soldered.. The 02 sensor I just wired up a new one, my vsvs had to be soldered because it literally had none when I got the car... Knock Sensors rewire just went in... But the code is gone and I am sure that rewire went well... Ugh starting to stress out....
 
Sside

Sside

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Hey guys, checked codes today and well... I was actually happy for the first time to get a code and a clue of what is wrong... Code 12... CPS could be the problem here or Ecu... Thoughts?...
 
supraguy@aol

supraguy@aol

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Dec 30, 2005
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metaphysico;1623712 said:
Nox is from low cyl temps, low cyl temps probably caused by the high HC, HC is unburnt fuel ie too much gas.
Click to expand...

No. High temps cause NOX. NOX can't even form at less than ~2200-2500 degrees.
HC is high because he is rich. NOX is low(a good thing) because being so rich causes low combustion temps.
Normally the NOX is reduced by the EGR system introducing spent ex. gasses, which reduces combustion chamber temps.
Additionally, the cat will break apart some of the NOX as well. But in this case, I'd say that most of the reduction of NOX is simply due to such a rich(therefore cool) combustion process. Once he gets the mixture under control, his NOX will rise, but that's ok- he's got plenty of headroom for it.

---------- Post added at 09:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

Is your idle normal- ie: 700-800rpm when warmed up?
 
Sside

Sside

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May 20, 2008
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supraguy@aol;1624421 said:
No. High temps cause NOX. NOX can't even form at less than ~2200-2500 degrees.
HC is high because he is rich. NOX is low(a good thing) because being so rich causes low combustion temps.
Normally the NOX is reduced by the EGR system introducing spent ex. gasses, which reduces combustion chamber temps.
Additionally, the cat will break apart some of the NOX as well. But in this case, I'd say that most of the reduction of NOX is simply due to such a rich(therefore cool) combustion process. Once he gets the mixture under control, his NOX will rise, but that's ok- he's got plenty of headroom for it.

---------- Post added at 09:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

Is your idle normal- ie: 700-800rpm when warmed up?
Click to expand...


It takes a while for my idle to normalise, 900rpm once car is warm.... If I drive it somewhere and then park it, It will drop down to anywhere from 600 to 800 rpm.... But morning first starts look at about 1200 rpm and dont usually go down much under 900 maybe 800 I havent checked exactly....

I did get code 12 today and I am hopeful my timing is off, even if it means replacing the cps.... Still no check engine light, not sure where to start trying to fix the problem thou... Thanks a million by the way...
 
supraguy@aol

supraguy@aol

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Dec 30, 2005
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Yup- you have a fuel issue.
Timing should be around 10 degrees btc, so check it as well.
But check TSRM for troubleshooting diagnosis.
 
Sside

Sside

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May 20, 2008
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Fuel Pressure Regulator? I'm sorry if I seem way off, I see and understand wht you guys are saying but I just cant seem to make up my mind on where to start...Post 6 suggest to readjust the tps, code 12 is asking for timing or cps correction... On the tsrm I see the efi section and the only thing I can come up with is the fuel regulator unless I have an ECU problem...
So I guess, Step 1 is tps....
Step 2 is cps adjustment and timing
Step 3 is checking ecu and maybe replacing fuel regulator?

Sorry for making this more difficult then it should be..... :(
 
JDMMA70

JDMMA70

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Dec 4, 2006
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Just adding some info. I never timed his car since the rebuild or since his replacement of the tps (his old tps and ISC were bad so it was hard to time with the idle surging) as my timing light broke. So before the motor went in i aligned the CPS as close as i could get it just so it could be started. The CPS was moved by other mechanics, so i plan to help him out and check the timing maybe sometime today.
 
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