Around 300hp power goals?

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Alec

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Apr 6, 2009
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I currently have 140,000 miles. I'm running the stock HG with the bolts re-torqued. The engine is running really good, no issues. The car was babied it's whole life. I have a power goal of around 300hp. The car is pretty much a show car that I street drive and have some fun in. I want to get a DDP and Test pipe so that I have a full turbo-back exhaust and maybe turn up the boost a little bit. No more than 11 lbs. I don't know if I should be ok with going ahead and getting the turbo-back exhaust or if I would have to do the HG. Keep in mind, I'm on a low budget.

Thanks, all help is appreciated.
 

AndyMac

New Member
Mar 9, 2009
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300 hp is fairly straight forward to get.

exhaust is a must, decent intercooler and intake, plus a little bit of boost should have you in the high 200 range. Will all depend on the condition of your motor.
 

Alec

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AndyMac;1382579 said:
300 hp is fairly straight forward to get.

exhaust is a must, decent intercooler and intake, plus a little bit of boost should have you in the high 200 range. Will all depend on the condition of your motor.

Well, I currently have a K&N FIPK, GReddy Type-RS BOV, and RS-R GT2 Cat-back. I'm pretty sure my engine is in good condition for 140k miles. I'm just wondering now if I can get the DDP and test pipe and turn up the boost without issues. I don't want to have to get a HG and ARP hardware if I don't need to for my basic BPU power goals. I'd be really happy with 300whp. If I know I can achieve that without needing to get the HG and ARP's, I can get coilovers and upgrade the suspension.
 
3" DDP/RS-R exhaust/K&N intake and an EBC on ~10 psi netted me 270 rwhp on a not very good condition 7M. I had a 3" cat in there too, but also had an aftermarket intercooler and 2.5" pipes so it probably evens out a bit :)

My car happens to be gray as well! :D
 

Alec

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rtrdpenguin;1382683 said:
3" DDP/RS-R exhaust/K&N intake and an EBC on ~10 psi netted me 270 rwhp on a not very good condition 7M. I had a 3" cat in there too, but also had an aftermarket intercooler and 2.5" pipes so it probably evens out a bit :)

My car happens to be gray as well! :D

Nice! So you think I should be ok with my HG? I don't want to have to baby the thing every time I drive it and worry about the HG blowing.
 

blk92suprat

J Zizzle
Jul 6, 2008
455
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USA
With you power goals I'd go with a composite gasket such as Felpro and ARP Bolts. Stock 140k gasket will more then likely give you problems down the road with elevated boost pressures.
 

radiod

Supramania Contributor
Dec 13, 2007
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+1 on replacing the head gasket if it hasn't been done so on a 140,000mi car. Start cranking up the power and that head gasket will more than likely just give up even if it was retorqued.

I've got the metal headgasket and ARP studs on my car, 2.5" metal IC pipes on stock IC, 57-trim CT26 @ 11psi, K&N intake, 3" turbo back Cat delete + divorced downpipe and I'm JUST over 300rwhp. It is doable, but you want to make sure you take the necessary preperations for the extra power and get stuff done right so your engine's in proper running order. It's amazing how much of a difference just proper maintenance and tune up stuff will make in terms of power.
 

RazoE

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Jun 13, 2006
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hell, you'll blow the HG just being NA (done it twice), definitely machine the head/block/timing cover if necessary and go for a MHG with ARP studs..

do it right, do it once...!


as for 300hp, I have an upgraded IC, larger diameter IC hardpipes (with less bends), 3 inch recirculated divorced downpipe, 3 inch exhaust with test pipe...

I'm sure with a few more PSI I can hit 300hp, as I'm running stock boost, but spool is insane..!
 

Alec

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RazoE;1383111 said:
hell, you'll blow the HG just being NA (done it twice), definitely machine the head/block/timing cover if necessary and go for a MHG with ARP studs..

do it right, do it once...!


as for 300hp, I have an upgraded IC, larger diameter IC hardpipes (with less bends), 3 inch recirculated divorced downpipe, 3 inch exhaust with test pipe...

I'm sure with a few more PSI I can hit 300hp, as I'm running stock boost, but spool is insane..!

I can't get MHG because I can't machine the block, only head.
 

7mgte1988

7M-Runner
Sep 22, 2008
223
0
0
Orlando
300whp is an apetizer for this car...A nice turbo back system elbow included or run divorce DP, Fuelpump 255,Lexus AFM,peformance airfilter,2.5 intercooler pipes,14psi on the turbo, and some 93 octane gas, And one good Seafoam and u should be there or close :naughty:
 

radiod

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Dec 13, 2007
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Why can't you machine the block? Just time/labour/$$? Honestly without putting an MHG on there I would keep it closer to stock, maybe just an intake and catback. That in itself would increase your boost 1psi or so just from freeing exhaust/intake restriction, but I wouldn't push it any further. Realize that it's not a matter of IF that head gasket will blow, it's a matter of when.
 

shaeff

Kurt is FTMFW x2!!!!
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Seafoam. Ugh. :nono:

jetjock said:
Seafoam, as with many additives, consists of a solvent in a light oil carrier. Iirc in the case of Seafoam the solvent is naphtha. It works OK for dissolving fuel varnish because that's what it's designed to do. The problem with injecting it into your manifold is that 1) It's not very effective and 2) You end up burning the oil carrier. That's why it smokes so badly. Burning oil from any source isn't good for your engine and it especially isn't good for your catalytic converter if you have one.

I prefer using water for de-carbonization and using a top tier gasoline along with a PAE (polyetheramine) based fuel additive a couple of times a year. That'll keep everything including the injectors clean. Gumout Regane (the yellow stuff in the clear bottle), Redline SI-1, and Techron Concentrate are all PAE based.

I said what the consequences are in a recent thread. It was rebuked so I left it up to the members to decide. You have to remember I deal with this sort of stuff all the time so when I run into those who "know better" I back off.

I'll say it again: The product has it's uses but this isn't one of them. Using it this way only lightens your wallet and shortens the life of your cat without benefit. The product is mostly light oil. Where do you think all the smoke comes from? Since when is combusting oil in either the cylinders or converter good? Rich mixtures kill cats so oil won't? If it removes any carbon it'll only be a tiny amount. If all you have is a tiny amount you're doing more harm then good because a small amount works to protect the piston crown. Good thing it comes right back, which makes the "treatment" even more of a waste. If you want to clean excessive carbon use water injection, an overnight piston soak, walnut blasting, or any of the other *proven* methods. Once it's gone keep it at bay by regular use of a PEA based fuel additive.

Aside from all the other tests you could've done a simple way for verifying it's lack of effectiveness is to examine the motor, including the valves, before and after using a borescope. I have a surplus medical instrument I use for those jobs. It was originally designed for, well, lets just say it's been shoved inside far worse places than a motor. I would've suggested doing this except it's already been done by myself and many, many other people who aren't as gullible as most of the public. The results are always the same: it does squat. People who swear by it don't do science. They accept anecdotal evidence from others. Being ignorant is not the same as being a dumbass but imo anyone who uses something without understanding the science behind it, based on what others say who also don't, is.

At least you did some "research" even if it wasn't the best kind. And like most people you did it after the fact. Frankly, if I was going to rely on what others say about a product's effectiveness (and I never do) I'd sure as hell require a lot better than 50% odds before any cash came flying outta my wallet. And even if the product did work I'll point out injecting anything into the brake booster line results in a very poor distribution of it across cylinders. If you feel a need to dump stuff into your engine do it upstream of the plenum, through the throttle body for example.

As I said, the product has it's uses. It's popular with bikers for a reason. I ride also and used Seafoam in the fuel for years. The naphtha in Seafoam works well to clean fuel varnish in my Vulcan's carbs but after a bit of study and testing I found something that does a better job. Since you brought up Techron and I brought up PEA here ya go. It's the same stuff:

PEA is Polyether Amine. It's the active chemical in Techron and a few other aftermarket fuel cleaners. Chevron's Oronite Division is the inventor and world's largest supplier these days:

http://tinyurl.com/y8v5ad

PEA is used in varying amounts in almost every quality gasoline made. The problem is unless you use one from the day an engine is new or rebuilt it takes time to clean things up. That and the amount varies from one fuel brand to another. The way to overcome this is to use a PEA based cleaner a few times a year or with every oil change and a good quality fuel (www.toptiergas.com) in between.

Typical fuel cleaners are solvent based and therefore cheap. They don't do much other than make your idle nice and that isn't from any cleaning action. PEA cleaners cost more because PEA is expensive to produce compared to solvents but also far more effective. The leading PEA based cleaners are GumOut Regane (yellow stuff in clear bottle), Redline SI-1, and Techron Concentrate. Each of these products has any where from appx 30-50% PEA with RedLine SI-1 having a slight edge. The cheaper Techron ProGuard also contains PEA but at a lower concentration. Not a good value.

Gumout Large Vehicle Fuel System Cleaner in the gold bottle is also PEA based. It contains the same percentage of PEA as does Regane but in a different carrier. It's 20 oz size makes for a better value if you can find it. Be sure it says "fuel system cleaner" and not "fuel injector cleaner". The bottles look nearly identical but the fuel injector cleaner contains no PEA.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I said what the consequences are in a recent thread. It was rebuked so I left it up to the members to decide. You have to remember I deal with this sort of stuff all the time so when I run into those who "know better" I back off.

I'll say it again: The product has it's uses but this isn't one of them. Using it this way only lightens your wallet and shortens the life of your cat without benefit. The product is mostly light oil. Where do you think all the smoke comes from? Since when is combusting oil in either the cylinders or converter good? Rich mixtures kill cats so oil won't? If it removes any carbon it'll only be a tiny amount. If all you have is a tiny amount you're doing more harm then good because a small amount works to protect the piston crown. Good thing it comes right back, which makes the "treatment" even more of a waste. If you want to clean excessive carbon use water injection, an overnight piston soak, walnut blasting, or any of the other *proven* methods. Once it's gone keep it at bay by regular use of a PEA based fuel additive.

Aside from all the other tests you could've done a simple way for verifying it's lack of effectiveness is to examine the motor, including the valves, before and after using a borescope. I have a surplus medical instrument I use for those jobs. It was originally designed for, well, lets just say it's been shoved inside far worse places than a motor. I would've suggested doing this except it's already been done by myself and many, many other people who aren't as gullible as most of the public. The results are always the same: it does squat. People who swear by it don't do science. They accept anecdotal evidence from others. Being ignorant is not the same as being a dumbass but imo anyone who uses something without understanding the science behind it, based on what others say who also don't, is.

At least you did some "research" even if it wasn't the best kind. And like most people you did it after the fact. Frankly, if I was going to rely on what others say about a product's effectiveness (and I never do) I'd sure as hell require a lot better than 50% odds before any cash came flying outta my wallet. And even if the product did work I'll point out injecting anything into the brake booster line results in a very poor distribution of it across cylinders. If you feel a need to dump stuff into your engine do it upstream of the plenum, through the throttle body for example.
 

Alec

SP Tuned
Apr 6, 2009
712
0
0
Illinois
radiod;1383127 said:
Why can't you machine the block? Just time/labour/$$? Honestly without putting an MHG on there I would keep it closer to stock, maybe just an intake and catback. That in itself would increase your boost 1psi or so just from freeing exhaust/intake restriction, but I wouldn't push it any further. Realize that it's not a matter of IF that head gasket will blow, it's a matter of when.

All I want to do is run a DDP with Test Pipe, and 11psi. Whatever HP that gives me is FINE. All I want to know is if I will be ok with my engine currently. The reason I don't machine the block is because of time/labor/money. I just want to make sure I'd be safe with a DDP, test pipe, and 11psi in addition to my K&N FIPK, RSR Exhaust, and Type-RS.
 

7mgte1988

7M-Runner
Sep 22, 2008
223
0
0
Orlando
Sounds like u know your stuff Shaeff...
Thats all i got to say i used it once when my motor had 87k miles on it and i was beating cars that was puting 270+ to the wheels with simalar mods as i listed..
Over using it may cause problems though as does sound violent to the motor..
 

gofastgeorge

Banned
Jan 24, 2008
944
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Alec;1383117 said:
I can't get MHG because I can't machine the block, only head.

I am running an HKS MHG, and never touched the block, or head......
No issues.
If the block is in good shape, it will take 300, no problem.
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
SM Expert
Feb 10, 2006
10,730
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7mgte1988;1383144 said:
Sounds like u know your stuff Shaeff...
Thats all i got to say i used it once when my motor had 87k miles on it and i was beating cars that was puting 270+ to the wheels with simalar mods as i listed..
Over using it may cause problems though as does sound violent to the motor..

Hint: It wasn't the Seafoam ;)
JJ knows what he's talking about...your experience is coincidental at best.


gofastgeorge;1383150 said:
I am running an HKS MHG, and never touched the block, or head......
No issues.
If the block is in good shape, it will take 300, no problem.

That makes you a member of the 10% club that got lucky and that's all it means. I'm pretty sure HKS publishes a RA spec for their MHG's for a reason.
 

charman02

Cruiser
Oct 14, 2008
121
0
0
Fresno
Hey Alec, everyone is right, you need a MHG to be safe. But, you've been asking if it'll be okay running a DDP and test pipe at it's current state, from my opinion only, it'll be okay. Why I say that? Because I've never done the headgasket, just retorqued it at 160k miles. I've been running on K&N air filter, 3"dp, hks catback sport exhaust with 10psi, and now I'm at 189k miles, still running strong. But I've already had plans on replacing the headgasket, just slowly buying parts that I need for the replacement. It's always better to be safe than sorry. Maybe you should perform a leakdown test on your engine to see if you have a head gasket leak, all cars run differently, yours may be different from mine.
 

Enraged

A HG job took HOW long??
Mar 30, 2005
1,844
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Victoria, BC, Canada
do you have gauges to watch boost and water temp? imho those are a must, the stock gauges are crap.

just install the ddp without a boost controller, and see what boost you hit. you might not even need a boost controller (although it would be beneficial), you can just shim the wastegate.
 

Alec

SP Tuned
Apr 6, 2009
712
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charman02;1383182 said:
Hey Alec, everyone is right, you need a MHG to be safe. But, you've been asking if it'll be okay running a DDP and test pipe at it's current state, from my opinion only, it'll be okay. Why I say that? Because I've never done the headgasket, just retorqued it at 160k miles. I've been running on K&N air filter, 3"dp, hks catback sport exhaust with 10psi, and now I'm at 189k miles, still running strong. But I've already had plans on replacing the headgasket, just slowly buying parts that I need for the replacement. It's always better to be safe than sorry. Maybe you should perform a leakdown test on your engine to see if you have a head gasket leak, all cars run differently, yours may be different from mine.

That's exactly what I wanted to hear.
 

Alec

SP Tuned
Apr 6, 2009
712
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Enraged;1383191 said:
do you have gauges to watch boost and water temp? imho those are a must, the stock gauges are crap.

just install the ddp without a boost controller, and see what boost you hit. you might not even need a boost controller (although it would be beneficial), you can just shim the wastegate.

I have a cheap aftermarket mechanical boost gauge but not hooked up. I also have a cheap aftermarket narrowband Air/Fuel ratio gauge, also not hooked up. No aftermarket water temp. I want to get all AEM gauges down the road, along the the Tru-Boost controller.
 
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