101MM Stroke 7MGE

DEFIANT 7M

101MM stroke of INSANITY!
Mar 30, 2005
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Starting from scratch...

The set up: Modified 7M crank stroke increased to 101mm, 85mm bore, race port/polish cylinder head w/2JZ valves, dry sump, 15:1 compression.


Allan :cool:
 
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Race Bred

New Member
Mar 30, 2005
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Tallahassee, Fl
Any updates on the dry sump pan/pump mount? :)
Amazing build up btw. It is a shame that the old thread is no longer...

Edit: What were your final 'safe' bore numbers from sonic testing?
 

DEFIANT 7M

101MM stroke of INSANITY!
Mar 30, 2005
620
0
0
55
Nashville/Miami
Race Bred said:
Any updates on the dry sump pan/pump mount? :)
Amazing build up btw. It is a shame that the old thread is no longer...

Edit: What were your final 'safe' bore numbers from sonic testing?

I'll be posting pics of the pan shortly. Kevco modified the stock pan for the dry sump. The final "safe bore" was 86mm. The sonic test was well worth extra cost. Be for we bored the block we "rocked the block" with Hard Blok.
 

Race Bred

New Member
Mar 30, 2005
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Tallahassee, Fl
Did you go with 2j pistons or custom? The Hard Blok sounds interesting... Even with the stock 91mm stroke and 86mm pistons the displacement comes out to be 3.1716L vs. 2.9541L with the stock piston...a .2175L improvement for a minimal cost (as compared to a stroker). Dose Hard Blok cure the problem of running hotter with an over bored motor (in theory of course since you have yet to run yours)?
 

Dirgle

Conjurer of Boost
Mar 30, 2005
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What caused you to decide to go with 15:1 compression? Last I remember reading it was 11:1. Aside from that I've been waiting to see this engine run and prove the skeptics wrong. Good Luck man. :D
 

DEFIANT 7M

101MM stroke of INSANITY!
Mar 30, 2005
620
0
0
55
Nashville/Miami
Race Bred said:
Did you go with 2j pistons or custom? The Hard Blok sounds interesting... Even with the stock 91mm stroke and 86mm pistons the displacement comes out to be 3.1716L vs. 2.9541L with the stock piston...a .2175L improvement for a minimal cost (as compared to a stroker). Dose Hard Blok cure the problem of running hotter with an over bored motor (in theory of course since you have yet to run yours)?

Custom piston from Diamond Racing. They have a 4cc dome, gas ported, short skirt. We had to send the head and the head gasket to them to make the pistons. They used the head too digitize the combustion chamber into the CNC. They need the head gasket to get the center line and some other specs. With the stroke the displacement is 3.5L ;) The HardBlok should cure the running hotter problem and also strengthen the block. I've watched them "rock" several circle track engines. By rights most of these engines should overheat with the type of cooling systems they have, but they don't.
 
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DEFIANT 7M

101MM stroke of INSANITY!
Mar 30, 2005
620
0
0
55
Nashville/Miami
dirgle said:
What caused you to decide to go with 15:1 compression? Last I remember reading it was 11:1. Aside from that I've been waiting to see this engine run and prove the skeptics wrong. Good Luck man. :D
Thanks man we will make it. I wanted to make sure we hit the goal. So we started the build around 14:5 compression. Once we pluged everything in we could not find a set of rings with the specs we wanted. So insted of the ultra safe 84mm bore we went to 85mm. Which jumped the compression up to 15:1.
 
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IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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I come from a land down under
D7M: A huge percentage of the heat comes from the Head so filling the block shouldn't cause problems in motor that isn't going to see sustained effort.

Keeping in mind you have to leave an inch or so of the block from the deck down empty so the coolant can flow through all the passages in the head.
(I bet you know this anyway) ;)

A friend of a friend ran an old Chrysler Hemi this way in a drag car with no issues.
 

DEFIANT 7M

101MM stroke of INSANITY!
Mar 30, 2005
620
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Nashville/Miami
Posted this in SF.
The final bore is 85mm, we were looking for 84.5. But there isn't a large ring selection for the specs we want. In going to this bore somethings have changed. The half point in bore size along with a 4cc dome puts the compression at 15.01 (actually 14.94). Displacement 3.458 or 211 cu in. We are going with a low tension ring set. Which will be no problem since we will use a dry sump port for crankcase vac. Also the pistons are gas ported. We also ran an engine analyzer program just to see some figures.

Piston Speed--- Vol Eff % (85mm throttle body@1527cfm )

3000 rpm-2000--- 83.8
3500 rpm-2333--- 88.9
4000 rpm-2667--- 94.1
4500 rpm-3000--- 99.8
5000 rpm-3333--- 101.1
5500 rpm-3667--- 100.0
6000 rpm-4000--- 100.8
6500 rpm-4333--- 94.8
************
7000 rpm-4667--- 89.6
7500 rpm-5000--- 87.1

378hp@the crank 6000 rpm. Tq peaked @ 5000rpm -365 lbs. At 3000 rpm tq is 254 lbs You get the idea. 5000 rpm is 341hp/365 tq At 6000 rpm tq fell to 349. Gotta love that stroke..
 

DEFIANT 7M

101MM stroke of INSANITY!
Mar 30, 2005
620
0
0
55
Nashville/Miami
My error the bore is 85mm not 86mm looking at the SF thread I realized my mistake. We could take the bore too 86mm but Daryle did not see the need.
 

DEFIANT 7M

101MM stroke of INSANITY!
Mar 30, 2005
620
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Nashville/Miami
A word of caution to anyone doing a complete rebuild. If you get your block "hot tanked", there are two things to look out for. The bushing that the oil pump shaft sits in can be pushed out with ease. Also, what this one is I have no clue. Directly inline with the vent tube driverside front near alternator. In the block there is another bushing????? Why it is there makes no since. But if that thing were to fall out it would destroy an engine!!! It push out with ease also (just with a finger!!). Daryl said when blocks are hot tanked any bushings (brass or other) shrink and can be pushed out with no problem. I'll post pics of them.
 

DEFIANT 7M

101MM stroke of INSANITY!
Mar 30, 2005
620
0
0
55
Nashville/Miami
Here is a break down of a Dry sump vs Wet sump, for some of the new guys who may know what it is but not really. (I got this out of Canton Racing Products Catalog)

"In a nutshell, the difference between a wet sump system and a dry sump system is where the oil is stored. In a wet sump system the oil is stored in the oil pan itself. The oil is pumped to your engine using an engine mounted oil pump usually in the oil pan. A dry sump system stores the oil in a remotely mounted tank. The oil is scavenged or sucked out of the pan and also sometimes from the lifter valley. This goes thru a multistage dry sump pump and is then sent to the storage tank. It is then pulled back through the pump and pumped back in to the engine. Along the way it passes through a series of filters, oil coolers, yards of stainless braided hose and occasionally has a short layover in Pittsburg waiting for a connecting flight. (Still awake?) Dry sump systems are more complicated and costly than wet sumps. The average dry sump set-up has the ability to scavenge 2 to 4 times the volume that it pumps into the engine. This causes "negative crankcase pressure," which gives you horsepower. Dry sump systems also offer a more stable supply of oil in all conditions since there isn't a rapidly spinning crankshaft located right above the oil. In a nutshell a dry sump cost more but works better. Big nutshell, huh?"
 

DEFIANT 7M

101MM stroke of INSANITY!
Mar 30, 2005
620
0
0
55
Nashville/Miami
With this long stroke we need to look at some problems we may face. One major one being, torsional vibration. I'm not really clear on this yet. But we are looking into a functional damper to address this http://www.atiperformanceproducts.com/products/dampers/damperparts/ Use the drop down window and go to dampers. Daryl picked up my stock crank pulley and first put it on a SB Chevy crank (nope too small). Then a BB Chevy crank (almost fit with a little honing it would!). Then a 302 Ford, perfect!! So then we looked at dampers from ATI for the 302 (or 5.0s). We then found out ATI offers import dampers for the 5M and 2JZ, but no 7M The 2J may be an option, but the 302 may be a bigger option. Since custom pulley sets can be made fairly easy for it with little cost.
One of the main reasons I picked the 7M crank vs the 6M crank was it has more counterweights. Which makes it a better balanced crank. Our stock crank pulley is a damper to some extent but it may not have enough. I wanted to use an Unorthodox pulley. But from what I've learned so far that may be the wrong way to go. When I learn more I'll pass it on
 

DEFIANT 7M

101MM stroke of INSANITY!
Mar 30, 2005
620
0
0
55
Nashville/Miami
IJ. said:
I think it's the old lower bush from the GT2000 distributor Allan.
Really!!! That thing could screw and engine up really bad. I had no clue why or what it was doing there. The same bushing is in two other 7M blocks I have. Thanks for the info IJ.
 

DEFIANT 7M

101MM stroke of INSANITY!
Mar 30, 2005
620
0
0
55
Nashville/Miami
Here are pics of the girdle sample from Arnout. I modified it to fit the stroke and sent it back to him. Now I'm just waiting for the actual main girdle. One pic is the girdle made for Christian.
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1145138

I got this from SF..A post from Arnout's own 2JZ stroker thread.

"Quote
I'm not going to invest money in the forged/billet steel main caps, stock bottom ends are pretty strong so should stock main caps. To add extra strength on the bottom end we have made a lasercut cradle (or stud plate) to be mounted on top of the main caps. A lot of honda and nissan engines have this from the factory. I haven't made a picture of the 2jz plate, but here is a 7M plate I made recently for the 700rwhp 7M engine I'm building for Christian in Germany."



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