what does it take to get 500hp out of a 7mgte
- Thread starter 88redma70
- Start date
naws dont have enough money im about to get the motor 5 speed transmission wire harness and ecu for 2000 1jz for the win :naughty:
Hello Ian,
I have machined the late 7M block and wile they are being machined you can see the differences. My machinist praises the JZ blocks and wonders why the the 7M was not made like it.
The rods on the 7M are weak. When I had my 7M it was a good rebuilt. one of the rods opened up durring sustained high RPM wile beating it on streets of willow springs. The three other 1jz powered cars walked all over me and we were all at the same power levels. These three other 1jz's are still running till this day.
Piston and rods have been known to take alot of power. I think the highest HP on a stock block is over 800 RWHP and 1100 RWHP on ugraded rods and stock pistons.
The oiling system on the 7M is underpar for what most of us on this forum want to do with it, it has nothing to do with user error. the oil preassure and volume is low in comparison to the jz oiling system. That is why we modify any part of the oil pump to get more out of it.
I have machined the late 7M block and wile they are being machined you can see the differences. My machinist praises the JZ blocks and wonders why the the 7M was not made like it.
The rods on the 7M are weak. When I had my 7M it was a good rebuilt. one of the rods opened up durring sustained high RPM wile beating it on streets of willow springs. The three other 1jz powered cars walked all over me and we were all at the same power levels. These three other 1jz's are still running till this day.
Piston and rods have been known to take alot of power. I think the highest HP on a stock block is over 800 RWHP and 1100 RWHP on ugraded rods and stock pistons.
The oiling system on the 7M is underpar for what most of us on this forum want to do with it, it has nothing to do with user error. the oil preassure and volume is low in comparison to the jz oiling system. That is why we modify any part of the oil pump to get more out of it.
88redma70 said:
Indeed. My project is still bleeding money :1zhelp: But if I didnt do a 2J, I would have regretted it. Over the years I have learned not to settle. Just wait, save, be patient, and get what you truely want the first time.
well i kinda want my car to be done before the summer because im going to california for the uscg
soapra said:
The rods on the 7M vs 2J are almost identical. (other than one being longer) Where is your proof when stating things such as being "weak"?
Stock vs stock the JZ heads are better and is no question but as Ron and I both know, once they are fully done (ported, machined etc..) the differences are very small between the 2. Both of our heads went to the same machine shop and I brought question up of what is the real difference between the M and J series heads.. His reply was that the difference between the 2 is small. (again, this is not talking stock but modified)
I have been on the streets of willow with over 600 RWHP and my motor was fine. You want to know what the response was from the pro driver on this track when he drove my car? " This 7M MKIII has represented better than most MKIV and Skylines at this track"
I was on the big track at the Streets of Willow BTW. Just because your car broke doesn't mean its bad, maybe your build wasn't so good after all. :icon_razz Duane
So it's safe to asume that your 7M is on stock rods Duane? :icon_razz
Streets of willow stresses the engine far more then big willow, alot more g's and turns, more prolonged second and third gear high RPM runs (6 to 7K) constantly. I do admit that the 7M I was using at the time had stock Toyota fasterners. When the engine was torn down it was clear that rod big ends had opened up.
My good friend is an instructor for both tracks and also for buttonwillow and he does track that Supra of his alot on both tracks, I'm sure he knows what he is talking about when it comes to how a track treats a car and it's powerplant.
Streets of willow stresses the engine far more then big willow, alot more g's and turns, more prolonged second and third gear high RPM runs (6 to 7K) constantly. I do admit that the 7M I was using at the time had stock Toyota fasterners. When the engine was torn down it was clear that rod big ends had opened up.
My good friend is an instructor for both tracks and also for buttonwillow and he does track that Supra of his alot on both tracks, I'm sure he knows what he is talking about when it comes to how a track treats a car and it's powerplant.
Wait, so 20 year old rod bolts stretched when spun over 7000 rpm?
Never!
If the car isn't built for what it is intended, then it will fail. I guarantee that my 7M will handle more than any stock JZ motor.
Never!
If the car isn't built for what it is intended, then it will fail. I guarantee that my 7M will handle more than any stock JZ motor.
soapra said:
Yes I was on stock rods at the Streets of Willow track in Cali.
Surprised? Cause I'm not. The big track vs smaller tracks have many difference variances. It will also depend on how you drive the car. Many factors are looked at when driving a car for the track like gear ratio, turbo set-up for on how high it is revved and the power band delivery. I also highlighted part of your post. I think you should know that I need not reply to that.
I am still waiting on my answer of how the 7M rods are "weak"
Doward said:
X2
Poodles said:
Some people don't realize the facts of how good the 7M really is. It seems that they go 1J or 2J then think they have an obligation to make an excuse like the rest of the crowd? All in all, each engine is a great engine, period.
Duane
Yep, only reason I didn't go to another engine is because I have everything to support a 7M...
It was cheaper for me. If I had a car without an engine, then I'd probably go 1J or 2J...
It was cheaper for me. If I had a car without an engine, then I'd probably go 1J or 2J...
soapra said:
I was thinking in terms of engine only, nothing else.
. The late blocks of the 7M also has extra ribbing. (The late 91 and 92 blocks IIRC like the JZ engines.)
. Pistons better? I would need proof on that. They are not forged pistons like many think. (they are Hypereutectic which can have advantage and disadvantages)
. Rods are very close. (other than being shorter)
. Head design stock vs stock is of course better and I can't argue that but, if you have both heads done, they are very close.
. As far as oil system, I would have to agree with Ian on that one.
Duane
I always had 40+psi at idle on my bone stock, 18 yr old, 100k mile 7M bottom end.
And 7M rods had been pushed to 500-600whp... How are they weak? Of course a shorter rod will be less prone to failure, but it also robs you of half a liter.
And 7M rods had been pushed to 500-600whp... How are they weak? Of course a shorter rod will be less prone to failure, but it also robs you of half a liter.
I'm not getting suckered into this um, debate, but I will say this. Most of the guys that own a 1jz have own'd 7m's in the past and we are comparing them to what we encountered with both motors. Nobody that owns a 7m has ever taken a 1jz out of the car and put a 7m into it. Just my two cents worth.
I don't know anything about rods, bearings, stroke, or whatever, but I do know I love my 1jz ten times better than I loved my 7m. I"ve driven it way harder, made more horsepower on a half liter smaller motor and have beat the shit out of it on the dyno and the street and it has never quit on me or messed up. The only problem I have ever had out of it has been clutch related.
Now back to your regularly scheduled debate................:biglaugh:
I don't know anything about rods, bearings, stroke, or whatever, but I do know I love my 1jz ten times better than I loved my 7m. I"ve driven it way harder, made more horsepower on a half liter smaller motor and have beat the shit out of it on the dyno and the street and it has never quit on me or messed up. The only problem I have ever had out of it has been clutch related.
Now back to your regularly scheduled debate................:biglaugh:
the only thing that makes me like the jz serious better is the sound of it when you hit rev limiter and it has a clean sound to it
I just read ALL 74 posts to this thread, and I'd like to share a few thoughts:
1. You will need many more parts to finish this $2000 1JZ, and there will be little left of your $3000 after that to reach the 500HP mark. I'll leave it to others who have actually done the swap to fill you in on what else you will need.
2.Shaeff's post carries a lot of weight! It may not be 100% true in all cases, but very close most of the time.
3. I am SO glad I have Duane and Nate among many others making the power they make with the 7M to motivate me to stay with the 7M, and not take the easy or cool way out.
4. Jay's car is Bad Ass WITH the 1JZ and 500HP. I don't care if he has torque or not, I love his car! And yes, I have ridden in it on the track, the street, and witnessed the dyno. And, he admitted he's an exception to shaeff's rule, and not a gearhead. He does however do almost all of his own work, including the 1JZ swap.
5. As stated before.........They are Both going into the Same car. With similar builds, they will perform somewhat similarly. Unless you are starting off with a solid 7m block that you can trust, $3000 probably isn't getting you to 500WHP. With that money, I'd adjust my goal downward to about 350-400, and maybe you'd have a chance with either motor (assuming the $2000 1JZ).
1. You will need many more parts to finish this $2000 1JZ, and there will be little left of your $3000 after that to reach the 500HP mark. I'll leave it to others who have actually done the swap to fill you in on what else you will need.
2.Shaeff's post carries a lot of weight! It may not be 100% true in all cases, but very close most of the time.
3. I am SO glad I have Duane and Nate among many others making the power they make with the 7M to motivate me to stay with the 7M, and not take the easy or cool way out.
4. Jay's car is Bad Ass WITH the 1JZ and 500HP. I don't care if he has torque or not, I love his car! And yes, I have ridden in it on the track, the street, and witnessed the dyno. And, he admitted he's an exception to shaeff's rule, and not a gearhead. He does however do almost all of his own work, including the 1JZ swap.
5. As stated before.........They are Both going into the Same car. With similar builds, they will perform somewhat similarly. Unless you are starting off with a solid 7m block that you can trust, $3000 probably isn't getting you to 500WHP. With that money, I'd adjust my goal downward to about 350-400, and maybe you'd have a chance with either motor (assuming the $2000 1JZ).
:icon_redf ........you make me blush Scott............:biglaugh:
Very well said. I too had Duane, Nate, Ken and others in mind when I owned my 7m. I didn't swap to a 1jz to be cool, you know me, I'll never be accused of being cool. I swapped to it to be different and because I liked the way it sounded.........stupid, I know, but that is why I swapped. Now that I have the 1jz, I love it. I think it has more torque than people think even though I'm in the process of buying a 2jz block to put under my 1jz head. A little more torque never hurt anyone..............well, it might hurt a few vette owners that I know of...........:evil2:
Very well said. I too had Duane, Nate, Ken and others in mind when I owned my 7m. I didn't swap to a 1jz to be cool, you know me, I'll never be accused of being cool. I swapped to it to be different and because I liked the way it sounded.........stupid, I know, but that is why I swapped. Now that I have the 1jz, I love it. I think it has more torque than people think even though I'm in the process of buying a 2jz block to put under my 1jz head. A little more torque never hurt anyone..............well, it might hurt a few vette owners that I know of...........:evil2:
88redma70 said:
I've heard many 7M's that sound badass! Have you heard Nate's car at WOT on the limiter?!!! Pure sex! :naughty:
ForcedTorque said:
I would agree with you on that.
ForcedTorque said:
I'm glad I can motivate someone in wanting to keep this tree trunk pulling engine. :icon_bigg So thanks!
non-metal headgasket from factory is my only beef with the 7m... like in all honesty Nissan was doing it, BMW was, but of course toyota wasn't... Not even in their 3SGTE's.