Well, I finally did it

pparrigo

India Delta OneZero Tango
Feb 12, 2008
115
0
0
36
WNY
I don't know how long this post is going to be, please bear with me.

It has finally happened. My beloved Supra's unerring reliability has gotten its first black spot.

I was driving back to school from the rifle range a few weeks ago where I had been with some friends. Dropped two of them off, and we were headed out to lock my rifles up at a friend's house. I was leaving the parking lot, in first gear, when i felt something like an extremely rough FCO at about 4500 RPM. Check Engine light promptly came on, stayed lit for a little bit, then went off. Then she stalled. I had enough speed to pull into a parking lot, albeit with no power steering.

My naive self thought a simple restart would fix things up. Then I was shown that that trick really only works on cell phones.

Well, I was about 4 miles from where I actually lived, and not getting there was not an option. It was running fairly rich, so I thought that I had popped a major hose or something. I found that I could manage as long as I kept the revs at 2k or below, and limped back to my place at 30mph, spewing smoke (apparently, as I heard this second hand from someone else later). There were no abnormal engine noises for that trip, it just sputtered a lot and tried very hard to stall when I approached the beginning of turbocharger territory. All the symptoms, at least to me, seemed like an air supply issue.

Got it into my parking lot, busted out the tools, and had at it. Unfortunately, it was quite dark out. Good thing the friend that was still with me had his SureFire. 10 minutes later, much of my intake system is lying in a pile next to the car and I'm trying to figure out what the hell is wrong.

Then I see it. The intake hose to the turbo. Big old crack at the connection. I felt manly. Look, world! I found a problem. And now I am going to do a makeshift repair with tape! Bring on the sexy women, because I am just that awesome.

Yeah, unfortunately fixing that didn't do jack squat.

The evidence I have now points to turbo failure:

-Turbo has 170k miles on it, not all of them light duty (I figure around 10.4 billion revolutions)
-Turbo spool had been changing in note sometimes. Prior to the possible failure, spool had sounded "raspy." Hard to explain the exact noise.
-No other apparent hose failures

Does the jury concur?
I have not been home more than 2 days since then to get it off the trailer and into the garage to examine it. As soon as I finish my final exams this week I am on vacation for 2 weeks and will give it a look.

Now here is part 2 of the saga:

Since winter weather has arrived here in Western New York, the Supra has been relieved of driving duty. Winter calls for not only a nice, deep black paint job and targa seal replacement, but some basic powertrain modifications as well. Some of you may remember a post I made before regarding the modifications the previous owner had allegedly made. I'll be doing an in-depth check of those as well.
If possible, I would like to hear some input/suggestions on what I have planned:

-Head gasket/ARP studs
- What make/thickness would people recommend?
-Lexus AFM/550cc injectors- Does this actually call for a different fuel pump setup than stock?
-Turbo upgrade-Possible purchase of a 57 trim? What else would be entailed in a turbo upgrade?

Would anyone recommend intake/intercooler modifications as well?

I realize that was a lot. I apologize. To compensate, I have attached some pictures of the aftermath of that incident, 2 of them sad.

Thanks for any input anyone may have.
 

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gaboonviper85

Supramania Contributor
Jan 13, 2008
3,236
0
0
38
Northeast Philly
1. Headgasket thickness is to be determined only after the head and block are decked...then figure out how much material was removed in the decking...then determine how thick a gasket is needed to bring the compression ratio back to stock....so let the machinist tell you how thick.

2. Yes...and a good adjustable fuel pressure regulator....also a something to tune such as safc or maft pro..etc

3. You won't need anything for a 57 trim ct26...just bolt it on....enjoy fuel cut....reccomend a good downpipe such as BIC and a full 3" exhaust....you may want a boost controler but that's on you....
 

ForcedTorque

Join the 92 Owners Group
Jul 11, 2005
6,099
2
38
58
Satsuma, Alabama, United States
I see a fundamental problem with the "it's broke, let's upgrade" approach. I think you should pinpoint the problem, and remedy it, before deciding to upgrade. If the upgrades remedy the problem, then all the better.

Yes, if you go Lex/550, you do need to also at least get a Walbro pump, and better if you get the AFPR too. You don't have to upgrade the intercooler or pipes, but that is a weak link in our system. I assume you do have the 3" exhaust already. If not, you should do that first.
 

EdT.Mk3

Sorta Secret Supra
Aug 21, 2008
157
0
0
San Diego
I see upgrading a car without sourcing the current problem like sweeping dust under the rug. Could cover it up now, and really bite you in the ass later.
 

super.secret.supra.club

Supramania Contributor
Mar 22, 2007
1,304
0
0
San Diego, CA
once you decide to upgrade the fuel system ie., lex, afm, 550 inj, safc, walbro, afpr do not forget to get a wideband data logger. really hard to tune without a data logger.

as far as the head goes, arp is FTW. metal head gasket is the way to go but if a felpro is also an option.

exhuast is a must, 3 inch from turbo all the way back.

if you do go with a 57 trim make sure to get a boost controller as a 57 trim will be best at 12-14 lbs.

gl and make sure you post pics or ban! lol

ed.d.
 

pparrigo

India Delta OneZero Tango
Feb 12, 2008
115
0
0
36
WNY
Sorry, forgot to mention that I do have a boost controller (older Greddy PRofec B) and 3" exhaust. Air box is not stock but I do not know exactly what it is.

With regards to codes, the CE light isn't on and doesn't come on. Would it still be throwing codes at me?

I agree with fixing before making better, but the only problem I have with that is that if the turbo is shot, I don't want to spend the money on a stock one when I was planning on upgrading anyway. There was some shaft play evident prior to the incident when I was doing some exhaust work. Forgot to mention that earlier too.
I'll see what the money cards look like.

Thanks for the input, ya'll are awesome.
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
SM Expert
Feb 10, 2006
10,730
1
38
Valley of the Sun
super.secret.supra.club;1176961 said:
ooo and dont foget to get an intake. lose the stock air box and go for a K&N or something similar.


K&N intakes are crap...they allow way too much dust/dirt to pass.
AEM Dryflow is a better choice.
 

JDMMA70

Active Member
Dec 4, 2006
2,550
0
36
Houston
pparrigo;1176784 said:
I don't know how long this post is going to be, please bear with me.

It has finally happened. My beloved Supra's unerring reliability has gotten its first black spot.

I was driving back to school from the rifle range a few weeks ago where I had been with some friends. Dropped two of them off, and we were headed out to lock my rifles up at a friend's house. I was leaving the parking lot, in first gear, when i felt something like an extremely rough FCO at about 4500 RPM. Check Engine light promptly came on, stayed lit for a little bit, then went off. Then she stalled. I had enough speed to pull into a parking lot, albeit with no power steering.

My naive self thought a simple restart would fix things up. Then I was shown that that trick really only works on cell phones.

Well, I was about 4 miles from where I actually lived, and not getting there was not an option. It was running fairly rich, so I thought that I had popped a major hose or something. I found that I could manage as long as I kept the revs at 2k or below, and limped back to my place at 30mph, spewing smoke (apparently, as I heard this second hand from someone else later). There were no abnormal engine noises for that trip, it just sputtered a lot and tried very hard to stall when I approached the beginning of turbocharger territory. All the symptoms, at least to me, seemed like an air supply issue.

Got it into my parking lot, busted out the tools, and had at it. Unfortunately, it was quite dark out. Good thing the friend that was still with me had his SureFire. 10 minutes later, much of my intake system is lying in a pile next to the car and I'm trying to figure out what the hell is wrong.

Then I see it. The intake hose to the turbo. Big old crack at the connection. I felt manly. Look, world! I found a problem. And now I am going to do a makeshift repair with tape! Bring on the sexy women, because I am just that awesome.

Yeah, unfortunately fixing that didn't do jack squat.

Umm this is just a wild guess but check the hose coming off the turbo going to the intercooler had the same symptoms as you do and my hose looked like this when i finally pulled it off.

p1177082_1.jpg
 

pparrigo

India Delta OneZero Tango
Feb 12, 2008
115
0
0
36
WNY
I can't believe I haven't even pulled codes yet. I am pretty useless, I guess, seeing as its taken me almost 2 months so far and all I've done is put it in the garage and pulled some of the intake system off. I was incorrect before, there is no shaft play evident in the turbo, and the compressor blades, at least, look to be in decent order. I'll get some pictures this weekend. (In the likely event that I don't, i give everyone permission to slap me with the fish of their choice)

Given the way my available work time is playing out, I think I'm just going to fix what's wrong and leave it at that for now. Unless I can magically get what I want to do done between when I finish this quarter of school in March and need the Supra for a road trip in April. I refuse to do the trip in my Bronco. The WNY to VA drive is too pretty not to have a removable roof.

Sidebar- the setup in the Jap corner of the garage is amusing right now- my '89 happened to get parked right next to my dad's '72 240z "project." I keep telling him i'm going to replace the 2.4L with a 7M when he isn't looking. He's not going for that.
 

j3pz

still learning
pparrigo;1217515 said:
Sidebar- the setup in the Jap corner of the garage is amusing right now- my '89 happened to get parked right next to my dad's '72 240z "project." I keep telling him i'm going to replace the 2.4L with a 7M when he isn't looking. He's not going for that.

sounds like battle of the imports hehheh.

go check your codes bro, its too simple to not do it. atleast this way you have a start on your troubleshooting
 

starscream5000

Senior VIP Member
Aug 23, 2006
6,359
0
36
Hot and Humid, KY
To the OP, what you described in your first post sounds like the makings of a bad boost leak. You sure that cracked hose you found wasn't the only leak? Sounds like you have another leak, or a coupler came loose on you.

Your description of how your car acted sounds just like when I forgot to hook up part of my bottom hard pipe to the intercooler. Anything above 2K RPMs and it would buck and want to die, along with spewing tons of smoke out of the exhaust from being extremely rich.
 

pparrigo

India Delta OneZero Tango
Feb 12, 2008
115
0
0
36
WNY
I would say I'm about 95% sure. Most of the turbo/intake plumbing was checked over and redone as necessary in August when she unexpectedly became an NA. Cracked hoses were my first thought and the first thing I checked, but it was by flashlight. Once I took it apart at home, I didn't really see any other hoses in bad shape other that the one that I patched. However, it still warrants further investigation. Other than going bowling on Saturday and getting my Bronco inspected on Friday, I think I know what i'm doing when I go home. Pulling codes and checking hoses...
 

Keros

Canadian Bacon
Mar 16, 2007
825
0
0
Calgary
Seriously, do not ever buy a part, upgrade or stock, to fix a 'problem' you've only guessed is the problem. Throwing parts, money, and time at something just wastes time and money. Pull the codes and figure it out. I speak from experience here...

It may be more simple than a cracked hose... a loose hose clamp can easily make a BIG boost leak. The fastest and most reliable way to check the intake is to make a boost leak tester: http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19718&highlight=boost+leak+tester

Pretty or fancy is not a requirement, all it needs to do is seal to the turbo inlet and have a fitting to attach to an air compressor. If you have a boost leak at the manifold or throttle body, inspecting hoses for hours will not help... make a tester and be sure.

Good luck.
 

willtotheumm

I Bleed TRD
Apr 11, 2008
75
0
0
Orcutt, CA
www.myspace.com
I can't say anything that hasnt been said yet like the whole 'upgrade to cure problem' deal. It is true though.

Oh and I can say I laughed pretty hard when I heard you say this:

pparrigo said:
Then I see it. The intake hose to the turbo. Big old crack at the connection. I felt manly. Look, world! I found a problem. And now I am going to do a makeshift repair with tape! Bring on the sexy women, because I am just that awesome.
 

Isphius

Supra-less :(
May 30, 2006
359
0
0
long branch
he still hasnt pulled codes yet like i said 2 months ago. then he should start doing other stuff. It sure does sound like a boost leak though
 

pparrigo

India Delta OneZero Tango
Feb 12, 2008
115
0
0
36
WNY
Just to clarify for everyone. The only reason I haven't done anything is that my garage is currently unheated and exceptionally cold... Intent was always to fix the problem before starting anything new, I was just laying out some future goals as a sidebar.