dirgle - thats assuming it is actually pulling the timing....it's 100% stock engine, with the exception of a dump valve, HKS turbo elbow and HKS T-16 Exhaust with no Cats. I doubt i'm making more than 200whp...
Ticking noises and oil pressure...
- Thread starter Kai
- Start date
A 100% stock engine will still pull timing. That is the job of the ECU. If it detects knock/detonation it will continue to pull timing until it eliminates it. At least to the limits of its ability. My car was more stock than your when I developed rod knock, and there was a considerably noticeable drop in power from before and after. It still ran good, but you could tell.
Aaah. Well, it's not driven differently since i've owned it, never been down on power, still smooth through the rev range, and Ed said it was in 100% good shape both on handing it over, and when he came to have a shufty at it about 3 weeks ago, and it was still making that noise....
Thats the wierd thing, see, i know it SOUNDS like rod knock, but there are so many other alternatives, and pulling an injector plug on any cylinder doesnt change the noise...
Thats the wierd thing, see, i know it SOUNDS like rod knock, but there are so many other alternatives, and pulling an injector plug on any cylinder doesnt change the noise...
Hopes and dreams will only get you so far.
I'm not trying to be a dick but these are the facts.
1. As much as you, I, and every other Supra owner might wish it, that is unmistakably the traits and sounds of 7M rod knock. Enough of us have gotten it to know.
2. When the ECU detects knock, it will pull timing and enrichen the A/F mixture. This lowers the power output.
An I6 motor is by it's nature strong and smooth, so you probably wouldn't notice the power loss if you hadn't been familiar with the car prior to the rod knock.
Once again, I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'm not going to sugar coat the situation either. This is the way things are.
I'm not trying to be a dick but these are the facts.
1. As much as you, I, and every other Supra owner might wish it, that is unmistakably the traits and sounds of 7M rod knock. Enough of us have gotten it to know.
2. When the ECU detects knock, it will pull timing and enrichen the A/F mixture. This lowers the power output.
An I6 motor is by it's nature strong and smooth, so you probably wouldn't notice the power loss if you hadn't been familiar with the car prior to the rod knock.
Once again, I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'm not going to sugar coat the situation either. This is the way things are.
*sigh*
In that case - anyone want a new set of TEIN HR's, HKS T16 Exhaust and Fensport/Pagid Brake Setup?
In that case - anyone want a new set of TEIN HR's, HKS T16 Exhaust and Fensport/Pagid Brake Setup?
Lol. This thread is a panic. I dunno whats funnier, the ECU pulling timing for rod knock or oil pressure varying with air temperature.
If I'm wrong about the ecu then please correct me. I'm not here to put misinformation out there, but my experience has shown me this is true about the timing. I know you have a very good understanding of the ecu. So please put the correct info out there if it is wrong.
If i sell the TEIN's, i have no suspension to replace them with...it came with the TEIN's - and no stock springs/struts in the box in the boot.
I just had someone offer me a set of standard size pistons with rods for £20, and i've taken his arm off for them
I *think* what i'll do, is use the spare, known good block for the moment to keep the car running...and then rebuild the block thats currently in there over a period of months...
I just had someone offer me a set of standard size pistons with rods for £20, and i've taken his arm off for them
I *think* what i'll do, is use the spare, known good block for the moment to keep the car running...and then rebuild the block thats currently in there over a period of months...
The knock sensors are tuned to a very specific frequency and amplitude, one that is the signature of detonation. The odds of rod knock generating that signature are slim to none. I suppose it's within the realm of possibility but it'd be an extremely rare event. I won't even try explaining the oil pressure versus air temperature thing
The knock sensors are piezoelectric elements that "listen" for a frequency of 7 kHz...the voltage output of the sensor is highest at that frequency. This is the KNK signal to the ECU. The ECU determines if the engine is knocking by KNK voltage above a threshold level, when this happens timing is retarded. When the knocking stops, timing is advanced after a fixed period.
I doubt rod knock produces the frequency the sensor "listens" for. If it is a 7 kHz frequency, the knocking Kai is experiencing is only happening at a narrow rpm range.
Edit: JJ beat me to it
I doubt rod knock produces the frequency the sensor "listens" for. If it is a 7 kHz frequency, the knocking Kai is experiencing is only happening at a narrow rpm range.
Edit: JJ beat me to it
jetjock said:
I have always understood this as well. However, on my car if I ran it, it would pull timing, and it would do so until I replaced the bearings. After that everything was fine. So I naturally believed that the knock fell somewhere within that range. I suppose it could have just been a coincidence, or I was the acception to the rule. But it was a scenario that I was able to reliably recreate over and over for as long as I had the rod knock.
jetjock said:I won't even try explaining the oil pressure versus air temperature thing
Yeah, whoever came up with that one, it's all theirs.:icon_conf
Well, I guess it's possible. Sure seems unlikely though. But If you're sure of it who am I to argue.
Maybe the guy was referring to very cold air temps and the resulting decrease in viscosity. The way he worded it just seemed odd.
Maybe the guy was referring to very cold air temps and the resulting decrease in viscosity. The way he worded it just seemed odd.
so there's no way it could be the lifter's? i'm surprised no one has suggested this. they make the same noise from what i can tell on the vid.
As jdub stated, the knock is 1:1 with rpms, this indicates that it is in the crank. If it were in the cams the knock would increase at 1/2 the rate of the rpms.
Also it has been my experience that shim noise is a less hollow sound.
Also it has been my experience that shim noise is a less hollow sound.
for some reason this sound in the video is multiplied times about 1000 then in real life.... the engine sounds normal except for what i believe to be valve ticking once the car warms up... i bought the head with it being "rebuilt" so im thinking they are way off....
http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/stangslvr01/?action=view¤t=MOV00941.flv
either way... i have pulled the spark plug wires one at a time and the "noise" remains the same.... that leads me to believe it is somewhere in the valvetrain as well... i just dont understand why this camera makes this noise sound soooo much worse then it does in real life...it also sounds to be more half the speed of the engine rather then 1:1...
any thoughts? ive pretty much come to the conclusion that its top end.... its hard to explain about the camera making it so much worse lol....
http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/stangslvr01/?action=view¤t=MOV00941.flv
either way... i have pulled the spark plug wires one at a time and the "noise" remains the same.... that leads me to believe it is somewhere in the valvetrain as well... i just dont understand why this camera makes this noise sound soooo much worse then it does in real life...it also sounds to be more half the speed of the engine rather then 1:1...
any thoughts? ive pretty much come to the conclusion that its top end.... its hard to explain about the camera making it so much worse lol....
See, i did the same thing - i thought it was valvetrain too, but its worrying me, so its better safe than sorry and time to build a block from scratch.