The infamous 1jz breakup: tried alot, getting no where

RBWTrans

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May 3, 2012
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Pensacola, Fl
Radial;1850883 said:
The JDM JZX/JZZ harness har no extra plug on the ECU side, but the US Supra has one separate connector as far as i know, And the wiring is some sort of different due to this.

But if the car has been working before, and since you now say you got no error-codes, exept the ones you trigger yourself by removing connectors..... I would suggest six new NGK BKR6ES plugs.

I was thinking the same thing. NGK'S! Those Bosche plugs that every parts store counter clerk pushes on you are the absolute worst plug for anything with boost. Not just Bosche, but cheaper plugs in general. The porcelin will split down the side causing misfires under load. Boost builds heat in the cylinder and causes the cracks to open up, making the problem worse. I'm sure that I don't have to say it, but I'm going to any way; Platinums are a no-no. Platinum tips hold heat and cause pre-detonation.
 

te72

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I've been running a set of cheap copper NGK's in my car for... oh, about 2 years now? I should probably change them out by now, or at least take a look at them, but they've done just fine, and cost me about $1.97 each. ;)
 

k20maniac

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Feb 8, 2009
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yea this car seems to like the cheaper plugs to the iridiums. Really the iridiums are just meant to last a gazzillion miles, but the copper plugs should give you a more powerful spark.
 

RBWTrans

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May 3, 2012
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Pensacola, Fl
te72;1851311 said:
I've been running a set of cheap copper NGK's in my car for... oh, about 2 years now? I should probably change them out by now, or at least take a look at them, but they've done just fine, and cost me about $1.97 each. ;)

Those are the best that you can buy for anything under boost. I run them in my Mitsubishi's at pressures upwards of 30psi and my boss even uses them in his 3600hp promod (that's a 700+ ci hemi pushing 65lbs of boost. Car runs a 3.7 in the 1/8th mile @ 212mph).

We should all know better by now, but we all had to hear it from somebody to know it.

k20 - IMHO, iridiums are for people that just like to spend too much money. The Iridium plugs still hold too much heat and, while the tip may last longer, the porcelin still suffers from the same extreme cylinder pressures and heat that your cheaper copper core plugs do, and still have to be changed just as often. Running the cheaper, copper core plugs lets me feel better about swapping them out every other oil change just for GP's.
 

kornfedmk3

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Dec 9, 2011
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des moines, IA
So I just bought this supra so I thought I could update this thread since there is still the breaking up issue. I just bought it tonight and it seems to happen around 4k rpms. He told me he checked a lot of things like igniter, map, replaced the coils, and the iat is hooked up. I'm still going to check the iat sensor though. there is no check engine codes right now but whem I even rev the motor up not moving, it still breaks up at 4k like it doesn't want to rev higher and it backfires. any more ideas of things to look at? I'm thinking about replacing the plugs and gap them to .28 if that's correct.
 

Radial

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Aug 20, 2011
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yeah, replace the plugs and use the "stock" copper-plugs mentioned above....I think the NGK BKR-series has been replaced by the BCPR series now, but they are identical... google it.

I also want to highlight some electric stuff that everyone really needs to think about:
If you check the voltage at the Coil-connectors with Ignition switch in "RUN". Measure from the connector to a good engine ground.
One of the pins in the plugs are +12v constant.... and if you read anything underneath 12v (It should read just a tiny bit less than the battery-voltage), it's a very bad power-conductor to the coils somewhere... not a rare find on old wirings.

It's a nice thing to check the Igniter ground as well.... poor grounding directly leads to terribly bad sparks. Just swapping igniters does not fix a bad ground... Igniter ground vs Chassis/engine ground should not read anything above 0,2ohm's (remember to check your multimeter's internal resistance first though, by just reading the resistance with the measuring pins touching each other) If you play and understand "Ohm's law", you will see how dramatically important good grounds are....especially with Igniton-coils are directly affected by any voltage-drops in the circuits.
Example:

A random coil converts 12v to ~50 000v.
That means that the coil multiplies the input voltage 4166 times.
If you for one reason or another have a 11v at the coils instead (still useful, but things arent good..), it becomes like this: 11*4166 = 45 826v @ the sparkplugs instead.
So 1v less on the coil feed-voltage, equals almost 4000v loss at the sparkplug.
For reference, as far as I remember... old-style coils for Distributor-systems use typically 20 000v for non-boosted applications (most are around 18 000v if I remember correctly)

Thats why Ground and Powersupply to the coils must be in a good shape...as coil-efficiency drops so dramatically if anything is wrong.
 
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kornfedmk3

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Dec 9, 2011
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des moines, IA
So I took it out today drove fine under 4k rpms. When I was almost home I decided to see when exactly it breaks up at and ig is exactly at 4k rpms the rpm gauge goes all the way down and back up and the car feels like it hits a cut and won't go past 4k at all. When I got home I parked it and I heard a weird noise coming from the trunk sounded like a weird buzzing that would stop after about 20 secs, sounds more like something is shorting out not like a fuel pump buzz from a bigger pump, it didn't sound good and when I tap the gas and let go it would happen again and again. So I had someone listen and it is right where the fuel pump is in the trunk. So Im thinking maybe that could be my problem or something. I'm going to check it out tomorrow. let me know what you guys think.
 

Radial

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Aug 20, 2011
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4000rpm's can get you into boost.
Does it brake up in boost?

If you get it in boost, fuel demand is much higher and you should be able to "sort out" your fuel pump....

With that said, CAS or Cranck sensors getting "out of Sync" (loosing signals etc) would cause similar symptoms.... very common to loose sync on JZ with standalones if one CAS or the crank sensor is wired with wrong polarity.
Auto-ECU's also have this decreased rev-limits when in Neutral....4000 sounds like a nice OEM rev-limit in Auto-Neutral....lol :D
 

scottiedawg66

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Apr 1, 2005
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my break up issues at 4k rpm were fuel related, so it is possible. will your car free rev to 7k when not loaded, or does it always break up over 4k rpm?
 

kornfedmk3

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Dec 9, 2011
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des moines, IA
It always breaks up at 4k. if I free rev it hits 4k then breKs up causing backfire. I'm going to switch out the igniter with a good known one. I did notice that on the cam sensor under the iat has oil underneath of it could that be a issue? what are spots to check for fuel issues?
 

Radial

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Aug 20, 2011
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If the engine brakes up at 4000 no matter what load, it's not fuel related IMO.... but give it a try if you have a bad feeling about your fuel supply.

JZ-cam sensors are known to leak oil internally, it's a weakness. The sensor is made of plastic/metal, that expands and retracts with engine temprature...metal expands more than plastic, and after many years of service the metal cap that covers the sensor-tip "detaches" from the plastic, and oil seeps inside the sensor housing. Sensor may still work for a long time, but eventually it will stop working.
I found rockauto.com to have the cheapest JZ Cam-sensors...so cam sensors from a 2JZ-GTE from a 1995 supra mk4 will do just fine. Sensors are the same as 1jz. My fwd cam-sensor is from rockauto (went standalone, and all cam sensors leaked oil, lol).

Double-check your ECU not to be an Auto.....it should clearly state M/T for manual and A/T for automatic. Automatic transmissions needs to short one ECU pin to Ground or something...so it knows it's not in Neutral.

We can come up with a ton of advice's , but I think you have sufficient knowledge now to dig in to it ;)
 

scottiedawg66

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kornfedmk3;1918145 said:
It always breaks up at 4k. if I free rev it hits 4k then breKs up causing backfire. I'm going to switch out the igniter with a good known one. I did notice that on the cam sensor under the iat has oil underneath of it could that be a issue? what are spots to check for fuel issues?

my car would rev to 7k rpm even at 70% throttle so i think we had different issues. i think checking sensors are others have mentioned are a good next step.
 

kornfedmk3

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Dec 9, 2011
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des moines, IA
Last night when I was driving it the check engine light finally came on! Help me figure out what my problem is. So I popped the hood couldn't find the diagnostic port anywhere, all I found was a bunch of connectors hanging around going no where shake my head. I found it hanging next to the intake manifold. Got to fix that.

When I pulled the codes I got code 14, and 42.

So I think I'm going to switch igniters with a known good one see if that fixes it, if not then I will check the coils then the coil wiring. I have no idea what to check for code 42. I will do some research but if anyone has any ideas let me know!
 

f00g00

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Jul 2, 2007
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Code 42 is speed sensor signal. Either your speedometer isn't working or the wire is cut from the speedo to the ECU. If cut it will disable speedcut but won't cause the breakup issue.
What boost are you running and do you have a wideband? You need to know your AFR under boost cause if too lean it will breakup.
Did you put in some new copper plugs and try that?
If you still are getting code 14 then read your wires from the ECU to the igniter first before trying another one.
 

kornfedmk3

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Dec 9, 2011
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des moines, IA
That's weird cause the speedo works fine. Car came with a cheap sunpro gauge that doesn't work or read vacuum so I'm going to get another gauge soon, I do have a aem wideband which when I started my car last night before I leff I let it warm up cause its cold out and the idle was right above 500rpms and the afr was at 17.0 then after it warmed it was going back and forth from 14.8 to 16.5. while driving the car about 30% throttle itwas at 14.0 and go back and forth from 15.0. At WOT it is around 12.5-13.

Maybe today I can record the afr and rpms so you guys can get the idea from idle to normal driving to WOT pull.
 

f00g00

Supramania Contributor
Jul 2, 2007
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The wire might be cut from the speedo to the ecu. Look at an ECU pinout and check the pink wire on the plug, on my JZA70 ecu its pin 8 on the 22 pin plug.
 

kornfedmk3

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Dec 9, 2011
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des moines, IA
I'm not really so worried about the speed sensor though. I really want to figure out this breaking up at 4k it really feels almost like a limiter or something it will not go past 4k for nothing! Right when it hits 4k the rpm gauge goes crazy!
 

kornfedmk3

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Dec 9, 2011
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des moines, IA
Alright guys so today I got my new plugs in and put them in. the plugs that were in it was NGK bkr5es. I put in some bkr6es. haven't drove it or anything I will tomorrow but the plugs that were in it were pretty white so the car must be running pretty lean.

Also checked around and 4 of the coil plugs had the snap part that clicks when you plug it in broken would thT cause any problems? I made sure they were plugged in the best it can. wires looked good not brittle.

The igniter ground also was loose to the point where I can wiggle it by hand so I tightened it up so I couldn't move it so hopefully the ground is good.