Larger Brake Master Cylinder options- 95 4Runner w/ABS?

twinturbozs

New Member
Apr 4, 2005
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Ive been searching for possible brake master cylinder upgrades for my MKIII. Ive found that a 1995 Toyota 4runner with ABS is actually a 1 1/16" Bore size. Compared to the supras master cylinder which is only 1". What im wondering, will a MC from a 1995 4runner bolt up? the outlets are very similiar and the threads are the same according to the napa website.


http://napaonline.com/masterpages/N...711&Description=Brake+Master+Cylinder+-+Remfd
 

spoolme

supra4umsfreak
May 9, 2005
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i forgot the name of the car..but i know its something..
xrt-i
you can use it as an upgrade. Dr. J has or had it i know of.
 

twinturbozs

New Member
Apr 4, 2005
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san francisco
I believe the whole XR4T-i master cylinder is a farce. Look at the pic for a XR4T-i master cylinder and you will see they dont even look the same as a MKIII master cylinder. Not to mention, the bore size of an XR4Ti MC is 15/16".


http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1204692,parttype,1836


Dont believe everything you read on the forums. Another search on this form yields the bore size of a MKIII master cylinder is 28mm, but all of my researching on MC's shows, its only a 1" (25.4mm) bore size.
 
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NashMan

WTF did he just wright ?
Aug 5, 2005
4,940
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Victoria BC
to answer you qestion yes you can use it and yes it will bolt up according to work computer and yes it is bigger piston

it's right about 99% of the time
 
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adampecush

Regular Supramaniac
May 11, 2006
2,118
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Edmonton
twinturbozs said:
Dont believe everything you read on the forums. Another search on this form yields the bore size of a MKIII master cylinder is 28mm, but all of my researching on MC's shows, its only a 1" (25.4mm) bore size.

The stock master cylinder itself has a 1 on it as well...
 

spoolme

supra4umsfreak
May 9, 2005
320
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Roswell, NM
ya, dr j wouldnt say i and beleive upgradedsupra(dont quote me, a long time ago) said it and dr j was like damn..my secret is out.
 

drjonez

Supramania Contributor
Mar 31, 2005
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www.4cefed.com
jmanbball said:
I remember reading a thread on this, and dr. j wouldn't say where the 1 1/16" master cylinder came from. I guess you found it

while that one may work, no he didn't find the one that i'm using.

brakemastercomparotop.jpg
 

drjonez

Supramania Contributor
Mar 31, 2005
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www.4cefed.com
buckshotglass said:
DrJ- If this is show and tell, you forgot the second part! Sharing never hurt anybody.:)

sharing never hurt anyone? go read MKIIItech.com....if that's not sharing, i don't know what is. there is no reason i should have to GIVE AWAY everything that myself and others have WORKED to discover/learn. :3d_frown:
 

buckshotglass

I love all your sounds.
DrJ- I have read some things over there. I actually tried to sign up over there, but never got confirmation.
I have much respect for the things you have done for the MKIII world, and I don't think you should give up any info that you don't want to.
I guess the pic you posted is just a tease to make him keep looking.
I get it now.:)
 

cjsupra90

previously chris90na-t
Jun 11, 2005
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There is no need to go to a lager bore master cylinder. For one, doing so will lower the pressure output for the same given peddle effort and therefor you will have to push harder to equal the same M/C output pressure, secondly, the stock master cylinder will displace more then enough volume for a 6pot caliper setup. The BBK that I built on my car is using 6pot calipers and the peddle is actually stiffer then the stock peddle feel. Generally speeking, just cause you have more pistons, does not mean that you have more area or volume. Remember, as piston count goes up, the piston size goes down. The only reason for multiple pistons is to spread the clamping force more evenly across the pad and also it you notice, multi piston calipers that use long pads actually have different size pistons they start out small and get larger in the direction of rotor sweep (rotor rotational direction). This is to even out the clamping force. The uneven clamping force of even sized multi piston calipers with long pads can easily be seen on the older 4pot corvette calipers. They always had what is called taper pad wear. This is bacause the trailing side of the pad actually gets pulled into the the rotor by the rotor as it rotates through the caliper and this causes the leading side to get pushed out and therefor the trailing half of the pad would do more work and wear faster then the leading half. To overcome this, manufactures (like Wilwood, Brembo, AP Racing, Alcon, ect...) started putting smaller smaller pistons on the trailing half of the pad and or larger pistons on the leading half. The larger size leading pistons then could overcome the the pad being pushed out on the leading half and therefor even out the clamping force across the entire length of the pad.

Back to the Volume issue, most multi piston calipers if sized correctly for a given vehical will have very little differance if any at all in over all piston area.
My Wilwood 6pots have almost identical piston area as the stock MKIII single piston front calipers. Actually, IIRC they have a minut bit less area then the stock calipers, yet the braking is far better. Something else to remember is that clamping pressure is only a single part in the over all picture of braking. Brake torque is what we want to increase to increase the braking ability. There are three things that effect the over all torque, clamp pressure, pad to rotor friction, and rotor diameter are those three things. Rotor diameter and pad coefficient of friction and more of an effect on braking torque then clamping pressure. Increasing pad friction coefficient and rotor diameter will significantly increase braking torque. This is why most well known quality BBK companies such as StopTech, Brembo, AP Racing, ect... actually build there BBK's for any given vehical with equial or less caliper piston area and therefor less clamping force. This helps with peddle feel and keeps proper front to rear ballance. Although in a lot of instances, the rears can stand to have more bias then what the factories designed them to have depending on vehical setup.

One thing to always remember is that brakes do not stop your vehical, tires do. You can have the biggest, meanest brakes in the world and if your tires are shit, the car is not going to stop any better then it did with stock brakes. The main reason behind BBK's is heat managment. Auto manufacturs spend a lot of time designing the brake system to stop a particular car and the best that they can for the given setup, tire size, and aver tire traction but the problem is that most of the factory designed systems are not designed to handle repeated hard stops and slowdowns from high speeds like say a raod course racecar does. Doing so and you'll likely experiance brake fade and warp and crack rotors. This is where BBK's come into play. Larger thicker rotors will absorb and dissipate heat better then smaller thinner rotors are therefor far less likely to experiance brake fade and warping and cracking of the rotors.
 

cjsupra90

previously chris90na-t
Jun 11, 2005
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drjonez said:
perhaps for your uses, yes.

for mine, no.

Adam, you do have a point. I guess that i should have added that it depends on the piston area relationship between original piston area and new piston area. Sorry, after spending almost three years design brake kits to work properly with all stock equipment besides the components being replaced be the kit, you tend to forget that. ;)

What calipers are you using anyways?