knock warning light?

suprakidd

New Member
Feb 11, 2011
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Glendale, Arizona, United States
i want to set an LED light in my pillar gauge pod to flash and warn me when ever knock occurs...

from my understanding all thats needed are:

-1x LED light
-a power, grnd, and signal?
-a resistor
is this it?

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but my questions are what resister would i need?
which plugs in ecu do you recommended pulling the power, ground, and signal from?
also i was wondering if any supra guys have done it?
 

supraguy@aol

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2005
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Signal IS the ground, if I'm not mistaken.(Where's Jet jock?)
But I dunno if the knock sensor circuit will cause an led to flash
 

suprakidd

New Member
Feb 11, 2011
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Glendale, Arizona, United States
yes jetlock my understanding is lacking, hence the thread. i appreciate your post and obviously have questions.

signal processing... i need something to process the signal from the knock sensors?

i need something that will convert the ground signal from the knock sensor to a signal the led can use to flash correct?
 

suprakidd

New Member
Feb 11, 2011
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Glendale, Arizona, United States
... im not even sure if i can take that serious....

i guess im incompetent so can i get help with want il need to get this done.

with the least amount of me filling like a dumbass ::hang::


maybe a link to a kit. or just the parts il need.
 

suprakidd

New Member
Feb 11, 2011
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Glendale, Arizona, United States
i searched.. i even pull up that same exact page before posting this thread.

i thought i could get a hand from you guys to make a led knock warning light for less then $150.

thanks though.

looking for more of a D.I.Y kit
 

Dan_Gyoba

Turbo Swapper
Aug 9, 2007
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www.gyoba.com
Well... Here's the kicker.

The knock sensor isn't just an on/off thing. It is in essence a microphone. As you might imagine, there's a lot of noise while the engine is running. The ECU filters that noise for certain frequencies, which mean "knock" and reacts accordingly.

I also looked into this, and got as far as designing the circuit, but without knowing the exact frequencies that the ECU is looking for, and without the patience to go through trial and error for sending signals to the ECU and watching when it retards timing, I abandonded the project in it's theoretical phase.

The project was in essence a 4th order bandpass filter, (With the design being identical to that used for an audio graphic equalizer) with a comparator to trigger when the "volume" of the filtered input rose beyond a trigger point. That was in turn passed to a monostable multivibrator circuit so that the light would stay on for at least a full second after the event, giving the driver time to see that it had occured. (Actual knock happening for this long is kinda bad, and I don't like lights flashing at me for a few milliseconds at a time.)

If you can get the frequency and voltage range, then the parts list to build this would be about $35. Probably about $22 each if you made 10. This assumes that you are capable of etching your own printed circuit boards, or are willing to bread-board the bandpass filter circuit, as well as determine the typical output voltage (for comparison purposes) of the knock sensor. (More expensive on bread-board, and less reliable.) Even then, there's zero guarantee that the results from the detector are always going to match what the ECU gets, since it's "listening" to two sensors.

Another alternative is to use an extra knock sensor entirely, say, in the boss for the 7M-GE version (Or, if you have a 7M-GE, in one of the two bosses for the 7M-GTE) but this raises the cost of the project to within the range of commercially available offerings.

Oh, and to determine what resistor you need for an LED, you have to know something about the LED that you're dealing with. The LED will be rated for a forward voltage (Vf) and current rating. You need AT LEAST the Vf in order to make it work at all. (Generally not a problem with a 12V environment.) You then choose a resistor which will keep the amount of current in the circuit below the current limit of the LED, but above the turn-on threshold.

It's easy enough to find design information on all of the circuit components that I mentioned, though there are certainly "gotchas" with actually getting the signal TO the circuit board, so if you don't already know something about signal processing, this is NOT the project to learn with.


tl;dr: Way easier and possibly cheaper to buy than make.
 
Oct 11, 2005
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Thousand Oaks, CA
Its not just filtering the noise, but also listening at the right time. The ECU only listens for knock in the 30 degree sector after ignition. This is why (in 1986) it took a separate processor just to handle the knock signal processing in our ECUs.
 

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
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Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
What 3p said. The ECU opens a window, called the knock gate, where it listens. The freq is 7 khz which is correct for inline sixes. And all I'll say about that big post is there's a huge amount of irony in the signature...
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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If you've ever used a set of electronic ears to listen to a 7M on a dyno you'd understand why the knock window is so important to hearing actual knock and not the normal background clatter, I tried a knock link in my car and it was 98% useless due to the noise produced..
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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Just keep in mind Knock Detection is after the event..... (think of it as a Bomb Detector that relies on the explosion to trigger it)

Best strategy is tune with a large safety margin if you're not $$$ up.