Hey guys Ill start off with saying I'm sorry if this has been asked a bunch already but does anyone know of any ways to run higher oil pressures on a GTE pump? I see that DM has an "upgraded" pump, anyone have a good experience with that? Looking for a simple remedy without making a custom gear or whatever. Thanks
Higher oil PSI?
- Thread starter mmarchmonte88
- Start date
Shim the oil pump. DM's oil pump has coating on the gears plus a shim for tighter tolerances and higher pressures.
mmarchmonte88;2001101 said:
Do you want to run higher pressure because you're concerned the factory pressure isn't sufficient for your power level? I ask because many people see the stock gauge and its relatively "low" pressure and think something must be wrong or that they need to significantly up the oil pressure.
The stock oil gauge is poor in my experience. Of the 3 different Supra's I've owned and 5 different engines only one or two combinations registered more than ~5 psi idle on the stock gauge. None of those 5 motors ever had any kind of bearing failure.
Does anyone have the upgraded pump from driftmotion? Is it worth it? And how much did the pressures change?
Maybe a little. couldn't hurt to just squeeze out a few more pounds of pressure for a little added security, you know?
suprarx7nut;2001142 said:
Just thought Id add this in. I have a lot of old Best Motoring videos featuring the Supra as well as magazine and books etc. In one video they are showcasing the 3.0GT Turbo (when they were new) and as you know their oil pressure gauges are metric. At idle I noticed they all sit at 1 kg/cm^2 which is roughly 14.2psi. So we all know our gauges read lower for whatever reason, but knowing that the oil pumps are the same it comes down to a matter of which is correct? Id have to assume we to are getting ~14.2psi at idle considering our gauge reads 0 then to an unnumbered tick mark, and then finally to 40, 80, 120. Whos to say the number readings between zero and the first tick arent around ~14psi?
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mmarchmonte88;2001179 said:
Not following that. Do you think pressure keeps the parts from touching?
The concept is actually reassuring to some people....
Not that a little more pressure is bad. Just don't overdo it.
Not that a little more pressure is bad. Just don't overdo it.
7mgte oil pressure is so low because the M series oil pump design was never meant to deal with the extra leakage points from a DOHC head, turbocharger, oil squirters, and oil cooler relief. This results in LESS oil flow through the bearings. People that think the 7M has low pressure and high flow through the bearings don't understand how a hydrostatic bearing works.
The extra leakage was taken into account when they chose the pump for the t. Is it enough? For a stock or even mildly modded car, I believe it is. With a heavily modded or high rpm or track car? I would definitely do something about the oil pressure. With hydrostatic bearings, flow is actually restricted. They work with pressure and require clean oil of the correct viscosity for optimal performance. I have a pretty good understanding of how they work.
I guess what I should have said is, "shimming is fine if you know what you're doing. This motor could use a little more oil pressure. But if you really want to improve the system, do the temp controlled oil cooler and relocated filter mods."
I really was trying to help. I just hate making words. I'll try to start explaining myself better.
Oh, and I think you kinda added the " through the bearings" part.
I guess what I should have said is, "shimming is fine if you know what you're doing. This motor could use a little more oil pressure. But if you really want to improve the system, do the temp controlled oil cooler and relocated filter mods."
I really was trying to help. I just hate making words. I'll try to start explaining myself better.
Oh, and I think you kinda added the " through the bearings" part.
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^Awesome. Thanks.
It sometimes seems like maybe I oughta keep my mouth shut. I'm often misunderstood and it's my own fault. But I really, really dislike waxing eloquent.
It sometimes seems like maybe I oughta keep my mouth shut. I'm often misunderstood and it's my own fault. But I really, really dislike waxing eloquent.
I hear the pressure thing lots. I shimmed my pump and the gauge shows no real change. However... I know whats going on and shimming is a good thing if done correctly. You want higher flow as opposed to oil pressure. Pressure is caused by resistance to flow... and resistance to flow is caused by something holding back oil. Way too simplified description, but I have always thought that I want good oil pressure (you need some pressure otherwise you aren't trying to push enough oil). Generally speaking though, don't get pulled into the fixes without really looking at the overall effect. Post #13 has the best advice for you.. depending on where your taking your engine. I believe if your not going above 400 at the wheels a stock 7MGTE setup is fine. After that, the higher you go, the closer you have to look. Having a healthy engine is the most important part.
I think sometimes this point gets overthought... but the oil cooler is a pretty silly setup overall on our cars and could have been refined better imo. In the end, I want to do a relocated double oil filter (one with a very fine oil filter and one regular Toyota OEM). Im not sure about putting any upgrades into the oil cooler itself because I don't think I run my car hard enough to worry about it.
What I don't see in your question is the "WHY" part...
I think sometimes this point gets overthought... but the oil cooler is a pretty silly setup overall on our cars and could have been refined better imo. In the end, I want to do a relocated double oil filter (one with a very fine oil filter and one regular Toyota OEM). Im not sure about putting any upgrades into the oil cooler itself because I don't think I run my car hard enough to worry about it.
What I don't see in your question is the "WHY" part...
Grandavi;2002603 said:
Toyota engineers put more research into the 7M oil cooler circuit than any forum member I've ever heard of. I think a lot of folks underestimate the resources that go into OEM equipment. Equipping the 7MGTE with an oil cooler circuit cost Toyota a LOT of money. Likely millions upon millions of dollars. OEM finance groups do not allow frivolous equipment unless it's a marketing ploy or something. I very much doubt the 7M oil cooler was solely a marketing ploy.
While a full flow thermostatically controlled oil system is an upgrade over the OEM set-up I think the OEM setup is proof that Toyota was confident in the 7Ms oil supply and pressure. They came to the conclusion that the loss in flow to the engine bearings and overall pressure loss resulting from the cooler circuit, oil pump relief and squirters/filter relief was all worthwhile.
From a reliability standpoint on a near stock GTE, the stock set-up has a HUGE advantage. Consider a leak in the factory cooler lines. That will only leak when the overall system has sufficient pressure. If the system loses pressure, the flow to the cooler stops. You may lose your cooling ability, but the engine still gets oil (until you leak all the oil, obviously). Now consider the full flow upgrade. A leak in that system directly impacts the pressure to the engine. You can quickly have an engine running on no pressure because of an external hose rupture. The factory system never allows for that. The upgraded full flow setup has better performance from a cooling standpoint, but the opportunity for catastrophic failure goes WAY up. Additional hose, fittings, external thermostat, filter adapter, etc.
I'm by no means steering anyone away from a proper full flow circuit, but understand that the factory cooler, while a pressure and flow thief, works well enough for near factory power levels and ensures an external hose leak doesn't lead to complete engine failure. It offers sufficient cooling to allow the 7MGTE to run well for tens of thousands of miles well over the factory power level.
Prioritize your upgrades and keep in mind how little most of us understand these systems compared to the folks that engineered them. To stand a chance of competing with the OEM knowledge on the cooler circuit you'd need to datalog at least a few different temp and pressure instruments in various places throughout the system. I've never seen any forum member or aftermarket company do any kind of research or testing like that on our oil systems.
While I agree with almost all of this, I would like to point out that the Toyota guys have made pretty obvious and major mistakes. The 7m-GTE is well known in part because of one of these mistakes.suprarx7nut;2002621 said:
The stock Cooler circuit is the most half assed design ever put into a car....
Pressure based means it's active when the Oil is stone cold just when you don't need a cooler.... :nono:
Pressure based means it's active when the Oil is stone cold just when you don't need a cooler.... :nono:
