For the gamers...if there are any

Reign_Maker

Has cheezberger
Aug 31, 2005
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Florida
2.2GHz Celeron 256megs of RAM, 40 gig hard drive with 27gigs of free space... As far as I know, I dont have any viruses, I run Nortons weekly... Spyware, have no clue...

Based on that info, any ideas? I'd like to play some of my computer games, but they play like crap on here... Is it my Celeron? Should I have gotten a Pentium 4 instead? I suck at computers... :(
 

Stanzaspeed

2.5 Twin Turbo R
Staff member
Mar 30, 2005
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Calgary, AB
GrimJack said:
competent PC players OWN anyone who doesn't have access to a *GOOD* mouse to control their movement.

Console controllers suck, without exception.

If you want leading edge, you use a PC. If you are happy with mediocrity from a few years ago, you are welcome to buy a console.

amen... :icon_bigg
 

GrimJack

Administrator
Dec 31, 1969
12,377
3
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Richmond, BC, Canada
idriders.com
robbo185 said:
get more ram^^^
Agreed. WinXP likes a gig of ram. And that should be a cheap upgrade. If you're not using XP, you likely should be.

Celery chips suck... but they could be worse, and realistically they aren't *that* bad, especially if you don't play killer games, edit big photos, or run CAD.
 

Furball

Yes, I play Halo
Apr 2, 2005
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Grim, have you read the tech info on the 360 chipset? Or on the 360 itself. I bet if it ran windows and you plug a keyboard and mouse into it you would use it as your home system.

The keyboard and mouse argument is so tired. Ok, an FPS is usually better with a keyboard and mouse, but action and racing are both better with a controller. RPG's and other games of that sort don't really matter if you use keyboard or controller.

Shoot, I have to go to work...I have many more things to say, but I will get to them later.
 

GrimJack

Administrator
Dec 31, 1969
12,377
3
38
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Richmond, BC, Canada
idriders.com
Yes, I've read the tech info on the 360. I like to know what the 'competition' has. If it ran windows and had a keyboard and mouse, it will still be nowhere near the speed of my PC. Admittedly, I am a power user, and essentially cost isn't a factor when I am buying components - but guess what, every pro-level gamer has at least as good of a system as I do.

The keyboard and mouse rocks for FPS & RTS games. I play these games. The steering wheel and pedals rock for driving games. I own a very good force feedback wheel and pedals, and I play these games as well. A Joystick and throttle are the best for flight sims. I have these controllers and play these games as well. What was it about the Console controllers that you liked again?

Last, but certainly not least - buy a console and you are locked into the tech in the console. In the case of the 360, it's a pretty decent set of hardware - now. Next year, it will be slow and tired, and I will have a new computer - hell, I will have built three new computers by then. And you won't be able to buy a new Xbox. The year after, I don't even want to get into - it's like putting a modded Supra on the track next to a stock Lada by that time.

All that aside, my biggest pet peeve against the Xbox is their incredibly stupid marketing strategy. They stole a PC game, killed the PC version, released it on Xbox only, and finally 'ported' it back to PC two years later, where it bombed terribly. I'm referring to Halo. I really wanted to play that game - and if it had come out for PC at the same time as the XBitch, it would have rocked. If it had been a year late, it would have been ok. When it actually did ship for PC, it was SO far past it's technology window that it was a huge disappointment.

I'll never forgive them for that.
 

Troyota

I Love What You Do For Me
Jul 28, 2005
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Roswell NM
You use the examples of all the stuff that PC's have had for years that consoles are just starting to incorporate (widescreen, HD, Surround sound, ect.) But the point being, the consoles are closing the gap...all the stuff that PC games have had as the edge is going away. I personally think that the game quality for the most part on the consoles is better than what has come out recently on the PC. Don't get me wrong...I used to rock the crap out of PC games, but I got tired of having to upgrade my system every time the next big game came out. With a console, yes you have the limitations of the system as it sits...however I never have to worry whether or not the next big game will work on my system w/o me sinking another $100-600 for it to even run. Plus game designers are always finding new ways to use the technology that is available (games get better as time progresses, even w/ the same system specs). Designers have just started to reach the limit of what the PS2 can do and how long has it been out? Can you play Battlefield 2 on a PC w/ technology from 6 years ago? I doubt it. Now it's time for the next gen systems to take over (360, PS3) and even now the games look spectacular on HD when compared to games on the Xbox and PS2...just imagine what games will look like in a year or two as designers figure out new ways to use the current technology.
 

Troyota

I Love What You Do For Me
Jul 28, 2005
243
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Roswell NM
You know what's funny? I figured this would turn into a Sony vs. Microsoft debate and has actually turned into a Console vs. PC debate...just kinda funny.
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
1,561
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Washington
dcrusupra87 said:
Sonys better........

vaiophoto_450x348.jpg
 

Dirgle

Conjurer of Boost
Mar 30, 2005
1,632
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Pauma Valley, CA
stanzaspeed said:
pfftt i dont even use/have a virus scan program.

My Anti-Virus program is Linux. woot!

As far as the console wars go, don’t believe all the hype the corporations throw at you. Cutting-edge PC's are already more powerful than next gen consoles, and expect this gap to continually grow over the next ten years(Sony's expected life cycle of the PS3), since you can't upgrade the hardware in a console. It's sad really, that current PC hardware has already exceeded the performance capability's of the PS3, that isn't even out yet. At this point the main thing that the PS3 has on PC's is blu-ray tech, it's also what is causing the delay. And PC's will get blu-ray soon enough anyways. The hardware specs are absolutely gorgeous on the 360 and PS3, there potential is incredible. But Sony and Microsoft really dropped the ball where it counts in current games, memory bandwidth. Both systems are choked and unable to realize their full ability. Both systems have tremendous horsepower, but it gets bottle necked in the memory. It's like building an 800hp 7M and then putting a little 20mm throttle body on it. The motor is capable but the power is never fully realized. The 360 and the PS3 are the same, and will always be because the hardware specs are already set.

Now lets look at CPU's,
The 360 has 3 individual CPU's running at 3.2 GHz that can be used for anything. And it has only 1 MB of cache for all 3 CPU's to use.

The PS3 has essentially 8 CPU's but only one of them can be used for physics calculations and everything else the PS3 needs. The other 7 are basically used for math calculations and on top of that they still have to wait for the first CPU to issue them instructions. And it only has 512KB of L2 cache for all 8. It's a sever bottle neck. This really depressed me, the CELL processor had the potential to become something truly revolutionary, but Sony failed and the CELL fell far far short. It is still a very powerful processor, but not what it could have been. It wasn't designed with PC or consoles in mind it was designed for appliances. Things that didn't need a whole hell of a lot of processing power, but needed to to a lot of things at once, hence the eight cores. The idea to use it in a console for processing power was an after though, and brought in at the end of the development cycle, to late to make necessary adjustment to fully utilize them.

So in a console the 360 has the advantage it terms of power, even though the PS3 can do more things at once.

Then there's PC's The current offerings (lets say the AMD FX-55) even at 2.6 GHz still owns the PS3's CELL(3.2GHz) processor, because of it's 1.5 MB cache, Sad. The 360 is a little harder because of it's three independent cores, but it's still limited because of it's 1MB of cache. It's is still faster than the AMD, but not by much. So whats the PC to do? Well both AMD and Intel well on there way to bringing multi-core processors to the consumer market(knock knock)oh, i guess their here. Intel is slated to introduce a 4 core processor beginning of 2007. And these processors are not plagued by the bandwidth issues of there console counter parts.

Now for system memory.
The 360 has 512 MB of system memory

The PS3 has 256 MB of system memory

The PC has... well how much do you want? 512 MB, 1GB, 2GB, 4GB? Take what you want and upgrade later. Not possible with your consoles. you're stuck with what you get for the next ten years.

Then you still have to deal with the memory bandwidth bottle necks on the system bus on the PS3 and the 360. PC's are only going to get faster.

Now lets talk graphics cards.
This is where the consoles(360) have the PC's by the balls right now.

The 360 has an ATI chip that has been designed from the ground up to preform perfectly in it's environment. It is a truly beautiful piece architecture, and in my opinion the ATI chip and Blu-Ray are the only true next gen things in the console wars. Even two graphics card's set up in SLI or cross fire are going to have trouble keeping up with the ATI XENOS chip in the 360. And it may be a few years before we get see some of the designs from the XENOS make it to PC cards because Microsoft owns the Intellectual Property, and won't release it until it feels it's safe for the console. PC graphics cards will surpass the 360’s shortly but not because of the designs in the XENOS. That is still a few years down the road, but when it is released expect a impressive jump in the PC graphics market.

The PS3 is a sadder story. Originally Sony intended to use three CELL processors to take care every thing, But then decided hit Nvidia up for one of their cards and then put it on steroids. This is the reason the PS3 has dual monitor capability, it's a hold over from the PC where that feature makes more since, The 360 lacks this ability because it was designed from the ground up for use in a console. Resent news has Nvidia claiming the performance of the PS3's graphics card(RSX) as similar to the GeForce 7800 in terms of performance. This is a little concerning because it's been shown that two GeForce 6800's running in SLI mode are marginally faster than the GeForce 7800. So if Nvidia is being honest and not just trying to puff up sales of the 7800, then PC graphics have already surpassed the PS3.

The biggest difference between PC and Console comes from the fact that Consoles are designed so that the game can communicate directly with the hardware with minimal translation from software. This is known as mode 0(zero). With PC's, on the other hand, the game has to communicate with the operating system, the operating system has to communicate with the drivers, which then have to communicate with the BIOS which then communicates with the hardware. This slows things down. So the same game on a console, and on a PC with similar hardware configurations, the console will preform better. However as PC get faster and better, and consoles are forced to stay the same for the duration of their product cycle In the end the PC will become the better gaming platform.

* Disclaimer: Information in the post is correct to the best of my knowledge, I am a gamer as well as a techie, and as such I try to keep up on such things. However in this world, technology changes day to day. I'm disappointed in Sony right now, but things may change, and Sony may fix some of the short comings of the PS3 before it's launched. Maybe it's the cause of the delay. Time will tell. As such if you want more current information on the next-gen consoles and PC's use google, it's your friend ;)

For those wondering my stance in PC vs. Console. I’m quite comfortable with a controller and a sniper rifle, however I will always feel more at home with a mouse and keyboard.
 
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NecroCyde

Lurk R
Apr 5, 2005
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Calgary/Brooks, Alberta Canada
what video card are you running? you dont have to pay that much for a good card, a radeon 9800 or 9600 will be quite sufficient with enough ram
go to www.ncix.com for some good prices on both things you need, a gig of ram can go for about 100-140 bucks and a new video card about 200-400 depending on how new and fancy it is. seriously upgrade your computer, the games on the 360 right now really arent jawdropping and the ones that are, some of them will be on PC, like TES4: Oblivion.
 

Troyota

I Love What You Do For Me
Jul 28, 2005
243
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Roswell NM
Dirgle: Great write up man...tons of information. I guess I've just become more comfortable w/ console gaming of late...maybe it's the dedicated gaming nature. Really what a lot of it comes down to is sequels to great titles that keep me coming back for more. The Gran Turismo series has had me from the start. As well as the Grand Theft Auto Series and Socom Series. When you look at my collection of games there are very few original titles in the mix...mostly sequels in a line of great games. I am just anxious to see what the next gen PS has in store. Hopefully Sony IS trying to revise things to make the PS3 bigger and better. They are in a position worldwide to demolish any hopes that Microsoft has to become a powerhouse in the console gaming market. Or they just might go the way of Sega and now Nintendo seems to be going and just kinda flicker out. Either way...thanks for the information and the take on things.

Necrocyde: I don't have an issue w/ upgrading my PC. It just seems like everytime a new game comes out you have to go and reinvest in a new graphics card and memory or a new CPU and that seems like a steep price to pay when the next big game comes out. As to when "The next big game" comes out on a console it's just a $40-60 investment...period. Maybe an extra $20 if you are out of space on your memory card. The point is that console game manufacturers seem to be able to make the most of what is available. Pushing just that little extra out of the available hardware as opposed to making a game that practically forces you to build another computer to allow you to play it.