Any alternative markings to do cam gear timing with???

[IwantMKIII]

That's not really true. Using the plate IS just "eyeing" it.

If you put something in the spark plug hole (i.e. a chopstick), it is very easy to feel TDC. The chopstick moves up as you rotate the crank and after it hits TDC, it will start to move down. You just rotate the crank until you get it precisely on TDC and make sure the cam gears are symmetrical.

If anything, this would provide a more accurate location than the timing plate. The timing plate isn't actually part of the system and is therefor less reliable than manually finding TDC. (Though not unreliable).

I have my timing plate - and you should take the offer for the free one - it's a good thing to have.

I understand what you're saying. I've done that method of find TDC for a long time now. The problem is the cams moved after the belt was off so it was no longer properly aligned done during the rebuild.

What i'm trying to say is which is more reliable/accurate when setting the cams to TDC points?

A) trying to judge where is exactly the cam should be lined up just by making sure the cam mark is straight up with NO reference points

B) aligning the cams with a factory marked cam cover

 

[ForcedTorque]

I just read your sig for the first time. That's awesome, and everybody's sig should resemble it. It's almost backwards from most every build here. Great to see that the Turbo is the LAST thing on the list!

 

[IwantMKIII]

I just read your sig for the first time. That's awesome, and everybody's sig should resemble it. It's almost backwards from most every build here. Great to see that the Turbo is the LAST thing on the list!

Ha thanks. Kinda sucks though at the same time....its been ready for so long im just waiting for extra $$ right now to come in. I think the 57 trim will be fitting for me. My car has been nearly dead even from a dig through 3rd (i missed 4th lol) at about 11-12PSI with a buddies 2000 C5 corvette (auto so me keeping up couldn't be from a bad driver) with intake, corsa exhaust (no headers yet), and its been chipped, so that ct-26 handles well and should be putting me in the 300's untuned for sure. I would assume based on that, the 57GT could easily push me over the 400 mark....i would HOPE anyway.

 

[dugums]

I understand what you're saying. I've done that method of find TDC for a long time now. The problem is the cams moved after the belt was off so it was no longer properly aligned done during the rebuild.

What i'm trying to say is which is more reliable/accurate when setting the cams to TDC points?

A) trying to judge where is exactly the cam should be lined up just by making sure the cam mark is straight up with NO reference points

B) aligning the cams with a factory marked cam cover

Whoa - I thought you were the one asking for alternative "markings"?!?

Of course the back timing cover is going to help - I never advised against using it.

Even after FT offered you a free one, you said "too late". What am I missing here? :dunno:

YOU are the one who said you wanted another way because YOU weren't running it.

 

[IwantMKIII]

Whoa - I thought you were the one asking for alternative "markings"?!?

Of course the back timing cover is going to help - I never advised against using it.

Even after FT offered you a free one, you said "too late". What am I missing here? :dunno:

YOU are the one who said you wanted another way because YOU weren't running it.

there is a misunderstanding between us on this.

I can set the crank TDC no problem...and that's what you described how to do in your posts. Im looking for markings on how to set the CAM gears to TDC since i dont have the cam covers anymore.

I took the free offer btw obviously...i mean why not.

The "too late" comment was to someone else when they said something along the lines of "i wouldn't drive the car if i were you" and i already had...hence the "too late" comment.

 

[jdub]

As Warren Johnson says "OK, here is where I take a punk kid to school"

1st of all Gordon, I'm not a punk kid..not even close.

2nd, The hole I'm talking about is in the saddle...the hole you show is under the cam seal.

3rd, I never said anything about blowing a seal...you did. What I did say is there is oil under pressure behind the cam seals (and there is). There is a relief hole as you so cleverly showed and it is there to prevent an over pressurization of the seal due to oil pressure. It does not take into account crank case pressure.

4th, I also said random drops of oil can leak at this seal and hit the timing gear/belt under deceleration...I guess you're going to tell me the cam seals never leak? Or that oil on a timing belt is just fine?

5th, Like I said...there are no bearings between the cam journals and the saddles. When you said bearing, I assumed you were referring to the feed hole in the saddle. Hence the link to the diagram and the STFU comment.

Perhaps work on your reading comprehension?

If there is ever a seal blow-out on a 7M,
it is because you have a worn out engine,
that the crank case vents are plugged,
and the blow-by has no where to go.

Or you have a worn out engine, that your jacking the boost up on,
and the blow-by volume exceeds what can flow through the vents.

So it (crank case pressure) exceeds the limits of the seals.

So now you're saying the cam seals can blow? I wonder how many folks here turn up the boost and have blow-by from their rings? What would happen to the seals under these conditions if the plate was not in place?

The bottom line on this subject (removing the cam gear back plate), there is not a good reason I can think of for removing it. It was put there for a reason...if anything to keep crap off the seals and oil off the timing belt. I have yet to hear from you, Gordon, any logic for removing it...other than to save 8 oz of weight.

You know Gordon, I've read with amusement over the years your eBay ads selling parts you import from Japan...quite "colorful". On eBay, you can make whatever comments you like...here, just a piece of advice, using the same type of commentary will tend to get you no where...like your recent posts to which GrimJack and IJ responded to. And now you went off on a tangent talking about blowing seals and calling me a "punk kid"...like I need to be schooled about the basics on this engine. It might be a good idea for you to think through why you do something on this motor...and, read the posts a bit better before you respond

 

[jdub]

there is a misunderstanding between us on this.

I can set the crank TDC no problem...and that's what you described how to do in your posts. Im looking for markings on how to set the CAM gears to TDC since i dont have the cam covers anymore.

I took the free offer btw obviously...i mean why not.

Well, you could degree your cams and get them "dead nuts on" by adjusting your gears...it will be more difficult to do with the engine in the car.

BTW - your were smart to take Forced up on his offer

 

[7M-fanatic]

You know Gordon, I've read with amusement over the years your eBay ads selling parts you import from Japan...quite "colorful". On eBay, you can make whatever comments you like...here, just a piece of advice, using the same type of commentary will tend to get you no where...like your recent posts to which Grimjack and IJ responded to. And now you went off on a tangent talking about blowing seals and calling me a "punk kid"...like I need to be schooled about the basics on this engine. It might be a good idea for you to think through why you do something on this motor...and, read the posts a bit better before you respond

Oh, did I step on the toes of another forum Guru ??
Oh, help us all if one of the Gurus get proved wrong on anything......

By the way, you act like it.
Age doesn't matter, actions do.

The 'saddle' you speak of is the bearing surface, since it holds a rotating shaft.
Saddles are for cowboys, or to mount a pipe on the wall.
Bearings hold rotating shafts.

I have never seen a 7M cam seal weep oil unless it is overdue for replacement.
If yours do, I suggest you replace them.

You didn't say blown seal, the guy after you did.
But it was all relevant.

You made the snide 'STFU' remark.
And hence the quote by the Professor.

By the way, I do run 20-50 in my engines.
(remember, you started this too)
The drag people went through the light oil BS a few years back.
They found that light oils don't protect nerely enough.
A few more HP is not worth running thin oil,
and the damage they allow under severe conditions.

I await you next face saving remarks,
They are quit entertaining.

 

[jdub]

I await you next face saving remarks,
They are quit entertaining.

Don't have to...true to form, you're doing a fine job all on your own.

BTW - concerning oil...98% of us don't run drag motors

 

[7M-fanatic]

BTW - concerning oil...98% of us don't run drag motors

So, what do you do when you want to race someone,
tell them " please wait while I go home and change out my oil. "
Or don't you ever get on that little 60mm throttle of yours ?

 

[jdub]

Give up Gordon...not gonna bite

 

[IJ.]

If you're talking about the steel cover the plastic cam belt/pully cover bolts to I wouldn't run a 7M without it.

7M fanatic: You're more trouble than you're worth here have a week off pull this shit again and it's going to be a perm ban.

 

[dugums]

there is a misunderstanding between us on this.

I can set the crank TDC no problem...and that's what you described how to do in your posts. Im looking for markings on how to set the CAM gears to TDC since i dont have the cam covers anymore.

I took the free offer btw obviously...i mean why not.

The "too late" comment was to someone else when they said something along the lines of "i wouldn't drive the car if i were you" and i already had...hence the "too late" comment.

Good call - I'm not really thinking about the problem completely, and I understand the "too late" comment now.

The cam gears can be properly aligned using a proper straight edge and analyzing the angle of the mark on the gears. There really isn't very fine adjustments to be made - after you have put the pin in the gear and the timing belt on - you should rotate the crank a couple of times to ensure you're not a timing belt tooth off.

I can't think of any other reason for adjustment - but I am dense so forgive me :icon_bigg

 

[GrimJack]

Give up Gordon...not gonna bite

I will, though.

I don't give a DAMN what you know, what you think you know, and what the actual difference is between the two. The problem here isn't your knowledge or your opinions, it's the fact that strife and conflict follow you around like a puppy.

There is a set of rules that people use to live together without ripping each other's throats out, based on courtesy and respect. Surprise! This set of rules extends to the online world as well.

I'll put out some advice here, even though I'm pretty sure by now that it will be ignored. Learn to attack the problem, rather than the people. Furthermore, be prepared to back up your position with either hard facts or opinion, state which you are using, and accept the fact that few people will put as much weight behind your opinions.

Bottom line is, if you can't get along with the community without causing too much stress - and, I might add, work for the staff - you're gone. I won't be happy about it, but I'll be even unhappier if I have to babysit every post you make and smooth ruffled feathers all the damn time.

 

[Supracentral]

7M-fanatic will no longer be joining our discussion. I have upgraded his temporary ban to permanent. This isn't because he disagreed with a staff member. It's because he can't show the basic civility and respect that is needed for rational discussion.

Simply put, the guy is picking a fight in every post. I've had quite enough of him and I'm certain everyone else has as well.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[IwantMKIII]

New issue:

I've noticed a dramatic increase in water temps. normally im at around 170-190 around town and 120-160 and lower on a faster road at these air temps. Today i was spicing things up a bit at around 210-225 around town. I would assume this is linked to timing.....why? and what should i do to fix it in the mean time?

 

[jdub]

Could be timing...what do you have yours set at?

What temp thermostat are you running?

Another thing to check is the fan clutch...especially if the temps at highway speed drop to what you're used to seeing.

BTW - the stock ECU looks for 176-210 degs as normal ops temps. Below 176, you are in warm-up enrichment...above 210, the ECU pulls timing.

 

[IwantMKIII]

Could be timing...what do you have yours set at?

What temp thermostat are you running?

Another thing to check is the fan clutch...especially if the temps at highway speed drop to what you're used to seeing.

BTW - the stock ECU looks for 176-210 degs as normal ops temps. Below 176, you are in warm-up enrichment...above 210, the ECU pulls timing.

Timing is set to stock as best as possible. just waiting on that cam gear plate to align the cams with...

Autometer cobalt guage, full sweep electric. Its surprises me how cold my water temps can get...ive hit below 120 going down a mountain with about 35 degree weather at about 75MPH.

Take notice what RPM's im at, speedometer is about 5-7MPH fast. Temp gauge is just below 140 according to autometer, barely registering on stock gauge:




I actually got below 120* after going down this mountain:

 

[jdub]

Is there a thermostat installed? If so, what temp?

 

[IwantMKIII]

Is there a thermostat installed? If so, what temp?

Ya lost me here. What would it control?