87 Supra Preservation/Modernization Build (Lots of pics!!!)

[Silver MK3]

Just realised that I had previously saved pictures of your interior as a reference for my build. They came up in a google image search

Do you mind me asking your interior trim code? Interested if it's Lx32 or Lx33

Also are they Redline Leather Goods handbrake boot and gaiter? Can see what you mean about the quality and colour match. The colour matches perfectly, but they look like a better leather than the Toyota items.

Haha that's great. What pictures came up that you saved?

My interior trim code is actually LB32. It's probably the same as the Lx32 just mine is an MA70 instead of a JZA70.

Yes, they are the Redline Leather Goods for the e-brake, shift boot, and center console cover. I also had them sew an extra square to protect the passenger seat from wearing on the seat back adjustment knob. The quality is outstanding and it is all real leather. I don't think the Toyota goods were real leather, I believe they were vinyl. I used the saddle color to match my interior.

Here's a thread I posted as a review of the leather stuff. It's got a good bit of pictures in it too.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/sh...sories-Leather-Shift-Boots-and-Armrest-Covers!

 

[DeSloth]

Ah sorry the x in Lx32 was the trim level which I left out as it is very car specific. L is leather, 32 is the colour.

I saved some seat pics from your first post

 

[emiliorescigno]

Nice thread! I hope more "restoration" style threads start popping up. These cars are old and people in search of "big power" are starting to move on. Hopefully SupraMania is going to transition to a smaller, more dedicated, more caring group of owners/members.

A couple notes:
1. I'd highly recommend avoiding Tokico Illumina II struts. I've had them on two of my cars now, and I really dislike them. They're overly stiff in the rear, and very underdamped in the front, giving them a very "Buick" feel. If you want to keep TEMS (and I assume you do, since this is a restoration type project), stick with OEM struts. If you're going aftermarket, Koni is king.

2. 89+ taillight conversion is cool, but a bit more work than you might think. Re-working the hatch key is a pain, so keep that in mind when you're considering it. Also, the center section will have an 89+ style trim piece integrated into it. So plan on converting all your body trim to 89+ when you switch the tails if you want to keep that nice, consistent, "factory" look.

3. My old car (now sold to gtsfirefighter) is having that exact same heat soak issue you describe. I'm not sure if he's made any progress on it, but it seems to be cropping up all over the place now for some reason.

4. What's the story with the head gasket? I don't see it ever mentioned, and any stock HG with stock bolt torque seems like sort of a ticking time bomb. If it were me (I'm quite mechanically inclined), I would pull the head, replace it with an OEM HG with ARP head studs, and replace the valve stem seals when the head is off of the car. The timing belt would be done at the same time as well.

5. Any plans to road trip to SIV?

 

[bnt12671]

Haha thanks for the thread and the heat soak is really embarrassing [emoji15]


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[Silver MK3]

Ah sorry the x in Lx32 was the trim level which I left out as it is very car specific. L is leather, 32 is the colour.

I saved some seat pics from your first post

Nice. I know Redline used to have some pics of my car for the sample pictures on the saddle color. Not sure if they still do though, I haven't looked in a while. It was a nice feeling though that my car was good enough for a company to represent it's products.

What exactly does the second letter represent? I see the one in the example you posted was C and mine was B. Any idea what these represent?

Also, was mine the same color as your's? I know you posted something about you's being a different type of red than most.

Nice thread! I hope more "restoration" style threads start popping up. These cars are old and people in search of "big power" are starting to move on. Hopefully SupraMania is going to transition to a smaller, more dedicated, more caring group of owners/members.

A couple notes:
1. I'd highly recommend avoiding Tokico Illumina II struts. I've had them on two of my cars now, and I really dislike them. They're overly stiff in the rear, and very underdamped in the front, giving them a very "Buick" feel. If you want to keep TEMS (and I assume you do, since this is a restoration type project), stick with OEM struts. If you're going aftermarket, Koni is king.

2. 89+ taillight conversion is cool, but a bit more work than you might think. Re-working the hatch key is a pain, so keep that in mind when you're considering it. Also, the center section will have an 89+ style trim piece integrated into it. So plan on converting all your body trim to 89+ when you switch the tails if you want to keep that nice, consistent, "factory" look.

3. My old car (now sold to gtsfirefighter) is having that exact same heat soak issue you describe. I'm not sure if he's made any progress on it, but it seems to be cropping up all over the place now for some reason.

4. What's the story with the head gasket? I don't see it ever mentioned, and any stock HG with stock bolt torque seems like sort of a ticking time bomb. If it were me (I'm quite mechanically inclined), I would pull the head, replace it with an OEM HG with ARP head studs, and replace the valve stem seals when the head is off of the car. The timing belt would be done at the same time as well.

5. Any plans to road trip to SIV?

Thanks! I think it already is starting to go in that direction more. Since I've been here for 4 years now I believe the number of posts a day has really gone down. I would like to see more restoration attention to detail threads come up too. I enjoy reading them more than the mega power builds.

1.That's not good for me to hear... I would like to keep the TEMS because of the originality but was planning on going with the Illumina II's. They're the only compatible replacement and I don't think the stock ones are available anymore...

2. Yeah, I'm the kind of person that will read until their eyes bleed before doing a mod to the car so I've seen the issues with the rear lock, and know about the trim. If I would do it then I would find a way to swap a pre 89 trim over to the 89 taillight, but most likely I won't do it. My stock trim is almost perfect all the way around except for a few little scratches that were there in one spot from the previous owner. My stock taillights are also in perfect shape so I'll probably stick with them.

Now that I've got the 4Runner I'm more inclined to mod it and leave the Supra stock. I don't mind taking the 4Runner away from stock, there are so many out there that it isn't rare to see a stock one.

3.At this point I've narrowed down the issue to what I believe are the only two possible causes, but I still can't guarantee it. By the way I really liked that car that you had for sale. If I had the space there is a good chance I would have driven up there and taken it off your hands haha.

4.The story with the head gasket is unknown. I didn't get any records with the car unfortunately. I think the dealer trashed everything when they got the car. I do know that the valve covers had been removed before because when I replaced the valve cover gaskets the stock bolts had been taken out before because the heads on them were kinda screwed up. This leads me to think that they may have replaced the head gasket before, but I can't guarantee.

There isn't a way to tell without opening up the engine is there? I don't think there is, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

I don't have any symptoms with of a bad head gasket and haven't since I got the car. I don't know when the timing belt was last done either, but I'm inclined to say 1999 because the dealer said the belt had been done before and according to the carfax the car had around 60k miles on it at that time I believe. The spark plug wires that are on the car are also not the original but are dated 1999. She currently has 91xxx miles.

I would like to do the timing belt and valve stem seals at the same time and I can see your point on doing the head gasket at the same time just as preventative maintenance. I think I am probably mechanically inclined enough to do this, but at the same time it kinda scares me haha. I've never been that far into a car. I know this job would probably cost a pretty penney at a shop too though.

5. I would love to make it SIV one year. Unfortunately it isn't really possible for me right now because of school. SIV is usually in September and by then the fall semester has already started so it makes it almost impossible for me to go and drive 4000 miles round trip and spend a few days in vegas. Once I am done with college I do plan to make it out there though. It looks like a fantastic event.

Haha thanks for the thread and the heat soak is really embarrassing [emoji15]


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No problem! It is, I hope I can get to the bottom of it eventually.

 

[DeSloth]

Nice. I know Redline used to have some pics of my car for the sample pictures on the saddle color. Not sure if they still do

Maybe that is where I found the photos. And yes photos are still on their site - after seeing your armrest I ordered colour samples from them

What exactly does the second letter represent? I see the one in the example you posted was C and mine was B. Any idea what these represent?

My research for Australian and Japanese cars found the second letter correlates with base trim level.
For those markets it seems to relate to things like door card material (suede, leather, fabric), gear boots (leather or vinyl), seats (Recaro, normal), gear knob and steering wheel (normal, airbag, momo items, possible cruise control etc.) I can't be certain for North American vehicles, though. It would be interesting to find out.

Also, was mine the same color as your's? I know you posted something about you's being a different type of red than most.

My interior is FK33 and is a brighter 'red' than yours.

F fabric or leather (fabric)
K trim level (third world spec as someone posted in my build thread )
33 colour ('Deep Red', appears to have been available same/similar period as shadow grey)

 

[Silver MK3]

Maybe that is where I found the photos. And yes photos are still on their site - after seeing your armrest I ordered colour samples from them



My research for Australian and Japanese cars found the second letter correlates with base trim level.
For those markets it seems to relate to things like door card material (suede, leather, fabric), gear boots (leather or vinyl), seats (Recaro, normal), gear knob and steering wheel (normal, airbag, momo items, possible cruise control etc.) I can't be certain for North American vehicles, though. It would be interesting to find out.



My interior is FK33 and is a brighter 'red' than yours.

F fabric or leather (fabric)
K trim level (third world spec as someone posted in my build thread )
33 colour ('Deep Red', appears to have been available same/similar period as shadow grey)

Ah, gotcha. I think the US spec Supra's were alot more standardized where most of the features were standard, or not available here versus the other countries. I forgot to suggest to order the color samples from them. They will definitely help decide what color you need to match. I'm sure they have one that will be a good match. Looking online I never would have thought that the saddle color would be my color, but when I got the samples I knew that it was.

 

[3p141592654]

My car has a similar heat soak issue but less serious, it doesn't stall, just runs rough and at a low idle speed.

I've datalogged the ecu during this behavior and what I see is that the ox sensor reads lean on startup (which is normal) but does not want to trip over to rich. The ecu ramps the fuel trim up as it is designed to do and eventually starts to add so much fuel that the idle bogs, but the ox sensor stays lean. If I just blip the throttle once the ox sensor starts cross counting and all is well.

My conclusion at the moment is that the ox sensor is slow to warm up for some reason, and the ecu is misinterpreting that behavior and adding too much fuel. In all other operating modes the ox sensor switches fast and reliably. Blipping the throttle seems to kick it enough to start working again.

 

[Silver MK3]

My car has a similar heat soak issue but less serious, it doesn't stall, just runs rough and at a low idle speed.

I've datalogged the ecu during this behavior and what I see is that the ox sensor reads lean on startup (which is normal) but does not want to trip over to rich. The ecu ramps the fuel trim up as it is designed to do and eventually starts to add so much fuel that the idle bogs, but the ox sensor stays lean. If I just blip the throttle once the ox sensor starts cross counting and all is well.

My conclusion at the moment is that the ox sensor is slow to warm up for some reason, and the ecu is misinterpreting that behavior and adding too much fuel. In all other operating modes the ox sensor switches fast and reliably. Blipping the throttle seems to kick it enough to start working again.

Hmmm. I didn't think about the oxygen sensor and never tested it therefore. I don't have any codes, but with mine it requires more than a blip of the throttle. When it really acts up I have to usually keep my foot on the throttle at like 2k rpms for several seconds and then when I let off it will hold an idle. Some days I don't even have time to get my foot on the throttle before it stalls right after starting.

 

[gtsfirefighter]

Great thread and you're car is beautiful. If the HG is original and you have 91k miles on it change it asap. Don't wait for it to blow and there is absolutely no if about it. It's when.
I have not resolved my heat soak issues yet that Emilio mentioned above. Mine has great difficulty starting when it happens and it's hard to keep running for about 30 seconds after I do. I've already purchased a new fuel pressure regulator and am waiting on the new fpr vsv to come in the mail. I have not given one thought to the O2 sensor though. I should just go ahead and buy a new one for it. Hell, I should just replace all the sensors haha.
Emilio was right about a Buick-ish ride in the front with those Illuminas. When I pull all my suspension apart to replace the bushings they will not go back on the car. I'm pretty sure stock TEMs shocks are still available it's just that they are rather expensive. My plan was to put some 89+ springs back on the car but the Eibachs look so good with the TT wheels I put on it. The drop is about perfect.
I too hope to see more restoration threads.

 

[Silver MK3]

Great thread and you're car is beautiful. If the HG is original and you have 91k miles on it change it asap. Don't wait for it to blow and there is absolutely no if about it. It's when.
I have not resolved my heat soak issues yet that Emilio mentioned above. Mine has great difficulty starting when it happens and it's hard to keep running for about 30 seconds after I do. I've already purchased a new fuel pressure regulator and am waiting on the new fpr vsv to come in the mail. I have not given one thought to the O2 sensor though. I should just go ahead and buy a new one for it. Hell, I should just replace all the sensors haha.
Emilio was right about a Buick-ish ride in the front with those Illuminas. When I pull all my suspension apart to replace the bushings they will not go back on the car. I'm pretty sure stock TEMs shocks are still available it's just that they are rather expensive. My plan was to put some 89+ springs back on the car but the Eibachs look so good with the TT wheels I put on it. The drop is about perfect.
I too hope to see more restoration threads. View attachment 75181

Yeah, I'm looking more into replacing the head gasket now when I do the timing belt, water pump, and valve stem seals. Then it should be good to go for many years to come.

Let me know if you see any improvement with the Fuel Pressure Regulator. 3p's post has me looking at O2 sensors now too haha. That sucks to hear that about the Illuminas from two people now. At least I haven't spent the money on them. I guess now my options are Koni, or Bilstein. I just looked on Toyotapartzone.com and they show the stock Tems struts as being discontinued front and rear...

If you ever decide to part ways with those wheels let me know. I'm always looking for a reason to take a road trip:biglaugh:

 

[rodel]

I love oem restoration builds. Very nice car. Great job!

 

[Silver MK3]

I love oem restoration builds. Very nice car. Great job!

Thanks! Means a lot coming from someone with such a clean Supra themselves.

 

[gtsfirefighter]

My new vsv came in the mail yesterday (Saturday) so maybe later today if it's not to terribly cold I'll try to replace it and the fpr. I'm going to replace those coolant lines under the intake as well. I ordered a new Denso O2 sensor and it should be here Tuesday. That should only take 5 minutes to replace. I'll keep ya posted.


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[emiliorescigno]

That sucks to hear that about the Illuminas from two people now. At least I haven't spent the money on them. I guess now my options are Koni, or Bilstein. I just looked on Toyotapartzone.com and they show the stock Tems struts as being discontinued front and rear...

A couple notes about struts, to add a bit more clarity to things.

Steve (toyotanos) is getting on my case about badmouthing Tokico Illumina IIs, and suggests that I might have just had bad examples on both the blue and red cars, I'm not convinced, but I suppose it's worth noting that both sets I've had have been used and I've never used them new out of the box.

Toyota OEM struts are still available for 89+ cars, but not Pre-89. I don't know what the difference is, but I'd be amazed if they can't interchange. Here are some links:

http://www.toyotapartszone.com/Page...Absorber Assy, Shock, Front LH - PNC: 48520

http://www.toyotapartszone.com/Page...=Absorber Assy, Shock, Rear LH - PNC: 48540

Napa makes TEMS OE Equivalent aftermarket replacements as well, if you're looking to save money. I'm always a sucker for OEM Toyota parts, but it's another option!

 

[3p141592654]

I installed new Illumina2s about 5 years ago. The OEM shocks were worn out and the front end was very bouncy and loose. The I2s were a huge improvement. I found them to be well controlled on the normal setting, and a bit too stiff on sport for around town. My memory of the OEM shocks when new is too fuzzy for any meaningful comparison, but I was under the impression that Tokico was the supplier of the OEM shocks as well.

 

[Silver MK3]

My new vsv came in the mail yesterday (Saturday) so maybe later today if it's not to terribly cold I'll try to replace it and the fpr. I'm going to replace those coolant lines under the intake as well. I ordered a new Denso O2 sensor and it should be here Tuesday. That should only take 5 minutes to replace. I'll keep ya posted.


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Please do! Where did you get the O2 sensor at? I was looking around briefly the other day and saw that rock auto sells the Denso ones for about $40. Will this Denso one have the same plug on the end as the factory one so it is plug and play?

A couple notes about struts, to add a bit more clarity to things.

Steve (toyotanos) is getting on my case about badmouthing Tokico Illumina IIs, and suggests that I might have just had bad examples on both the blue and red cars, I'm not convinced, but I suppose it's worth noting that both sets I've had have been used and I've never used them new out of the box.

Toyota OEM struts are still available for 89+ cars, but not Pre-89. I don't know what the difference is, but I'd be amazed if they can't interchange. Here are some links:

http://www.toyotapartszone.com/Page...Absorber Assy, Shock, Front LH - PNC: 48520

http://www.toyotapartszone.com/Page...=Absorber Assy, Shock, Rear LH - PNC: 48540

Napa makes TEMS OE Equivalent aftermarket replacements as well, if you're looking to save money. I'm always a sucker for OEM Toyota parts, but it's another option!

I didn't know Napa sold an equivalent. I'm glad there is another option. I'm not sure why it shows the OEM Toyota TEMS ones as only being available for the later models. The only thing I can figure is that I think they changed the motors that adjust the shocks at some point to ones that were supposed to move faster.

I installed new Illumina2s about 5 years ago. The OEM shocks were worn out and the front end was very bouncy and loose. The I2s were a huge improvement. I found them to be well controlled on the normal setting, and a bit too stiff on sport for around town. My memory of the OEM shocks when new is too fuzzy for any meaningful comparison, but I was under the impression that Tokico was the supplier of the OEM shocks as well.

Well that's good to hear a good review of them. I do believe that Tokico was the original manufacturer of the shocks. I think I remember seeing it stamped on my shocks when I was under the car before.

 

[emiliorescigno]

I didn't know Napa sold an equivalent. I'm glad there is another option. I'm not sure why it shows the OEM Toyota TEMS ones as only being available for the later models. The only thing I can figure is that I think they changed the motors that adjust the shocks at some point to ones that were supposed to move faster.

I know that the TEMS actuators changed between Pre-89 and 89+, but IIRC they're plug-n-play between years. My guess would be that it changed part numbers in response to the change in springs/spring rates with 89+ cars.

Regardless, I wouldn't for a second worry about purchasing and installing them. No aftermarket strut manufacturer seems to mention Pre-89 vs. 89+ model years, and are compatible universally across the board.

 

[Silver MK3]

I know that the TEMS actuators changed between Pre-89 and 89+, but IIRC they're plug-n-play between years. My guess would be that it changed part numbers in response to the change in springs/spring rates with 89+ cars.

Regardless, I wouldn't for a second worry about purchasing and installing them. No aftermarket strut manufacturer seems to mention Pre-89 vs. 89+ model years, and are compatible universally across the board.

Yeah I'm pretty sure they would work too. I was thinking about that as well, that all the aftermarket shocks work for all years 86.5-92, so I would think these would too.

Awesome thread, OEM restore is great fun hey

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Thanks!

 

[Old Radar]

Well that's good to hear a good review of them. I do believe that Tokico was the original manufacturer of the shocks. I think I remember seeing it stamped on my shocks when I was under the car before.

Silver--As you know from my Intro thread, http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?207730-Old-guy-with-a-great-old-ride-but-you-knew-that-part!, I despaired of finding TEMS compatible replacements for my OEM suspension and reluctantly decided to go with Fortune Auto 500 Coilovers.

After your statement about Tokico possibly being the manufacturer of the OEM struts, I went out to the garage to take a good look at the ones that just came off my car. These are not only OEM, but the originally installed struts that came on the car when I bought it new, back in 1989. I was surprised to see stamped under the Toyota name the letters KYB! I did a quick internet check on the part numbers (CF02 for the fronts and CF10 & CH30 for the rears) but came up dry.

I will tell you that after adjusting the FA 500s to step #8 (on the soft side of the 24 available steps) I'm happy with the ride. I admit I was worried about having to lower the car but they have so much height adjustment I could actually raise it to an inch above stock height. I lowered it exactly an inch below stock and the look has really grown on me. The only drawback is that I can't go over speed bumps quite as fast as I used to. :wtc:

The handling improvement more than makes up for having to slow down over the speed bumps. A lot less squat in the back end when accelerating. There was virtually none when I had them set on #16 but it was just too stiff for me. Less roll and the car now fairly flings itself around corners. I really like that, but think it has more to do with the way my garage adjusted the toe-in to compensate for the slight negative camber on the rears.

I can't speak for other coilovers, but if you can't find OEM replacements, the Fortune Auto 500s made me happy. And don't forget--FA builds them to your driving preferences. Talk to Jonathan at THMotorsports. Just remember to keep the tophats and the actuators so you can go back to TEMS if they ever come out with replacements.
Even though it may sound like it, this has not been a paid endorsement... I'm just happy with the changes to my Supra!:biggrinbo