Why DLI won't fire COP

[limequat]

I just read all of the thread "Using JZ's igniter in 7M-GTE".
No comment on all that, other than it was bitch to read the entire thing without getting anything answered.

Anyway, the reason that DLI won't fire COP is that current will take the path of least resistance - in this case - the cylinder on the exhaust stroke. This is also the reason that 2 ignitors fix the problem, all the current is forced to the cylinder that needs it.

The twin ignitor idea is a good idea that I would like to use, as it would help in putting a n/a manifold on a turbo car. Whatever, I'll post back if I figure it out.

 

[figgie]

N/A manifold? You mean intake manifold? Question is why when you can go a ron or other custom FFI and gain more power and much better throttle reasponse that way?

 

[limequat]

N/A manifold? You mean intake manifold? Question is why when you can go a ron or other custom FFI and gain more power and much better throttle reasponse that way?

Figgie, please show me data that a FFI will gain more power and have better throttle response than a n/a 7m.

Anyway, I'm not interested in a FFI for other reasons. I want to retain the current cross over design. Also, I'm not interested in peak power gains. Looking for a little more low end grunt here.

 

[figgie]

Figgie, please show me data that a FFI will gain more power and have better throttle response than a n/a 7m.

Anyway, I'm not interested in a FFI for other reasons. I want to retain the current cross over design. Also, I'm not interested in peak power gains. Looking for a little more low end grunt here.

PM Ron ramirez (goes by jtma71). He did comparisons of the air distrubution for the FFI to the stock 7m-GTE turbo (which mind you the only difference is the dual chamber design that the N/A uses hence the y pipe v. the single middle intake for the turbo). He has all the hard facts on power and flow and distribution.

 

[siman]

Its hard to believe you cant meerly see in your mind that a FFI would flow better on low end and top end than the stock 7m manifold ( intake). Heat soaking is a BIG reason to go to the FFI, much less the repsonse becuase of a shorter intake tract tubing and ability to go with a larger throttle body.

Just having shorter or longer runners can make a difference on the manifold itself.

Like Figgie said, pm Ron Ramirez (JT2ma71) with you question, he has flow charts for both.

and he can also make a short runner or long runner design for low end grunt or top end!

-J.M.

 

[limequat]

PM Ron ramirez (goes by jtma71). He did comparisons of the air distrubution for the FFI to the stock 7m-GTE turbo (which mind you the only difference is the dual chamber design that the N/A uses hence the y pipe v. the single middle intake for the turbo). He has all the hard facts on power and flow and distribution.

Alright, I PM'd Ron. Hopefully he can chime in here. Though I don't think GTE manifold flow numbers will correlate to N/A manifold numbers.

As for distribution, it sounds like the turbo manifold is a little short on the middle cylinders. This would make sense - as the air hits the back wall, it would have to turn around again to hit cyls 3 and 4. With the twin entries, the N/A could either minimize or exacerbate this effect.

 

[limequat]

Its hard to believe you cant meerly see in your mind that a FFI would flow better on low end and top end than the stock 7m manifold ( intake).

Huh, sorry, I'm not getting it. FFI -in and of itself- is a detriment to distribution.

Heat soaking is a BIG reason to go to the FFI, much less the repsonse becuase of a shorter intake tract tubing and ability to go with a larger throttle body.

I'll skip the comment about the throttle body, as that's another topic altogether. Yes, I'm aware of heat soaking and increased throttle response due to shortened ic pipes. Here's a teaser: In the end, my plan is to have shorter pipes than obtainable even with a FFI! And heatsoak will not be a problem.

Just having shorter or longer runners can make a difference on the manifold itself.

Like Figgie said, pm Ron Ramirez (JT2ma71) with you question, he has flow charts for both.

and he can also make a short runner or long runner design for low end grunt or top end!

-J.M.

Anyway, we're off topic. As stated, I will not be pursuing a ffi for other reasons. Though, I am interested in the data that is out there...

 

[GrimJack]

Threadjack!

Sounds like someone is planning to put an air / water IC between the throttle body and the turbo outlet, right overtop of the valve covers.

/Threadjack

Let us know what you figure out about DLI firing COP.

 

[limequat]

Hehe, he's on to me.

 

[GrimJack]

Only because I have been considering the same plan.

The problem is that I don't think it will fit under the hood... I recently had the opportunity to see one of the PWR Air/Water ICs in person, and it was BIG - like 6inches in diameter. I don't think that even switching to the N/A valve covers to give you a straight shot into the throttle body will give you enough room under the hood.

Plus I haven't managed to find any hard numbers on the Air / Water setup that shows it's at least as effective as a decent Air / Air IC setup. (I haven't looked that hard, though.)

 

[limequat]

Only because I have been considering the same plan.

The problem is that I don't think it will fit under the hood... I recently had the opportunity to see one of the PWR Air/Water ICs in person, and it was BIG - like 6inches in diameter. I don't think that even switching to the N/A valve covers to give you a straight shot into the throttle body will give you enough room under the hood.

Plus I haven't managed to find any hard numbers on the Air / Water setup that shows it's at least as effective as a decent Air / Air IC setup. (I haven't looked that hard, though.)

Yeah, I don't think PWR is the way to go. I figure we have at least 4" to the hood. Figure 3.5 for the core height. Assume the core is 4" deep and 8 inches wide. Replace the Y pipe with a single inlet, dual outlet IC design and it should package with plenty of room to spare. If only the coils weren't in the way. Which brings us back on topic

 

[lagged]

you could just reverse the order of the plug wires and put the coil packs at the back of the engine, you would have to alter the wire harness connection for the coilpacks however. though this seems like less work than getting a COP set up to work.

 

[chevyeater]

I just read all of the thread "Using JZ's igniter in 7M-GTE".
No comment on all that, other than it was bitch to read the entire thing without getting anything answered.

Anyway, the reason that DLI won't fire COP is that current will take the path of least resistance - in this case - the cylinder on the exhaust stroke. This is also the reason that 2 ignitors fix the problem, all the current is forced to the cylinder that needs it.

The twin ignitor idea is a good idea that I would like to use, as it would help in putting a n/a manifold on a turbo car. Whatever, I'll post back if I figure it out.

What lead you to the conclusion that coil primary resistance would increase due to cylinder pressure?

A little birdie told me that N/A plug wires work good for moving the stock coil pack off the cam covers.

 

[supra90turbo]

What lead you to the conclusion that coil primary resistance would increase due to cylinder pressure?

A little birdie told me that N/A plug wires work good for moving the stock coil pack off the cam covers.

quite interesting... but where did that birdie suggest the coilpacks sit?

 

[limequat]

quite interesting... but where did that birdie suggest the coilpacks sit?

Firewall?

 

[limequat]

What lead you to the conclusion that coil primary resistance would increase due to cylinder pressure?

Actually, I was referring to the energy required to jump the gap. It's easier to jump across the relatively low pressure (and hot) gap in the exhaust stroke, than that in the relatively high pressure (and cold) gap in the compression stroke.

 

[Blue87T(Dan)]

Interesting stuff.

Way to avoid that damn box.

Good luck, I can't wait to see what comes of this.

 

[chevyeater]

Firewall?

Yup.

 

[chevyeater]

Actually, I was referring to the energy required to jump the gap. It's easier to jump across the relatively low pressure (and hot) gap in the exhaust stroke, than that in the relatively high pressure (and cold) gap in the compression stroke.

I agree with that statement. :drink1:

The compression coil is charged the same as the wasted coil though.

 

[limequat]

PM Ron ramirez (goes by jtma71). He did comparisons of the air distrubution for the FFI to the stock 7m-GTE turbo (which mind you the only difference is the dual chamber design that the N/A uses hence the y pipe v. the single middle intake for the turbo). He has all the hard facts on power and flow and distribution.

Ron confirmed no data on the 7M-GE.