Ways to cure 7M oiling issues

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
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Feb 10, 2006
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You will delay getting the oil up to ops temp, keeping it thicker than what you want. The bearings w/ stock clearances are designed to operate at a viscosity of ~10-11 cst. You want to reach this viscosity by getting the oil to 100 deg C as quickly as possible...that is the purpose of a thermostat.
 

blk91

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Aug 29, 2005
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Ok so it would basically be the same thing as over cooling trans fluid, I'm looking at getting one of the smaller B&M coolers that claim expose more oil to the cooler as temperature increases, That to me seems that it would function the same as a T stat, Am i right it saying that? . Another question i have had, that may have been done to death here is that My dip stick shows my oil level as being fine but when I get my oil changed me and my mechanic seem to think the amount of oil coming out seems a bit low. we are going to dump it into something graduated next time to be sure. From what i can see its a stock dipstick and nothing related to it seems modified
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
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Feb 10, 2006
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No, a smaller cooler will not function the same as a T-stat. You could exceed the thermal capacity of the cooler and the oil get too hot...that is worse. Like IJ said, to run a T-stat you have to go to a full flow cooler set-up.
 

mk3forme

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Apr 5, 2005
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Just put 6 quarts in it at your next oil change and then see where it is on your dipstick. Mark that spot and you will know where you need to be everytime you check it.
 

blk91

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Aug 29, 2005
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Yeah I was going to ask about the 6 quart thing, That is over the rated level and i was under the impression that that what was not a good thing, At this point I'm going to get a oil cooler and a T stat and a filter relocation kit, Should that make a huge difference in oil supply. I cant drop the pan for a while to replace the hose with the banjo for a while. Right now I'm just going for the freak chance of having some longevity out of a motor of unknown condition. Jdm motor with a rebuilt top end by the owner before me.
 

mk3forme

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Apr 5, 2005
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from what I have read thus far, our oil pans will hold 6 quarts w/o causing problems with the crank. Maybe some of the experts should chime in on this though.
 

7M-fanatic

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Apr 21, 2006
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mk3forme said:
from what I have read thus far, our oil pans will hold 6 quarts w/o causing problems with the crank. Maybe some of the experts should chime in on this though.

The trouble with a higher oil level than what Toyota recomends
is that it greatly increases the amount of oil that
the tornado created by the crank turning at 5000 RPM will pick up,
and carry around with it.
This not only robs horse power (kilowatts if your down under),
and does nothing to allow the air bubbles from seperating from the oil before the pump picks it up, but......
It also increases how much oil is carried out the breather by blow by.

The surface speed of the crank, even at 4000 RPM is over 5,000 feet per minute!
That will suck up oil from the pan, if the level is too high.

A crank scraper will do way more good than over filling the crankcase.
Add a windage tray, and it is even better.

Here is a picture of a 7M windage tray I missed in Japan about 5 years ago.
If I knew then how rare some of this stuff was, I would have grabbed it then.
I have not seen one since.......
 

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IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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Mk3: No probs +1qt is fine and not even almost near the crank with the motor stopped, with it running there's probably 1>1.5 qts pumped around the inside and top end.

Lost of misinformation and guess work creeping into this thread recently.
 

Mr. Sinister

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Aug 30, 2005
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IJ. said:
Mk3: No probs +1qt is fine and not even almost near the crank with the motor stopped, with it running there's probably 1>1.5 qts pumped around the inside and top end.

Lost of misinformation and guess work creeping into this thread recently.

So on a stock setup (stock oil cooler, etc.), how much over 5 qts. would you go? +1?
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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Sin: Yes +1qt at least.

The problem with our motors is the pan isn't baffled very well and once running you pump a qt or so upstairs so if you're down a little and have to jump on the brakes or get enthusiastic in the twisties you can uncover the pickup......... (ask how I know)

+1qt is NOWHERE near the crank not even close, I now run a GroupA Magnesium pan with a 3qt Moroso Accumulator and this gives me 12qts capacity.
 

Mr. Sinister

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Aug 30, 2005
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IJ. said:
Sin: Yes +1qt at least.

The problem with our motors is the pan isn't baffled very well and once running you pump a qt or so upstairs so if you're down a little and have to jump on the brakes or get enthusiastic in the twisties you can uncover the pickup......... (ask how I know)

+1qt is NOWHERE near the crank not even close, I now run a GroupA Magnesium pan with a 3qt Moroso Accumulator and this gives me 12qts capacity.

Ok, thanks.
 

bwest

Drafting, not tailgating
May 18, 2005
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Short of asking 'how much' you should be asking 'why' -

If the goal of running extra oil in the pan is to keep the pickup submerged during extreme maneuvers (accel, decel, left and right) you could fill the whole pan up to the brim to do that. But the oil has to go somewhere (do you really want to be submersing 1/3 the crank in oil under braking? don't think so). I didn't measure the total volume of my stock pan when it was off, but my thoughts are this:

(based on the assumption that there is 1-1.5qts being pumped at any one time)

1. (from what I remember) 1 gallon (4qts) will sit at the top of the 'baffle' hole for the oil pickup to drop into (lowest part of the baffle). Sitting stationary, that is more than fine (don't forget to add the above 1-1.5 that is moving around in the motor). It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to say that inertia would move the majority of that oil to the front of the motor under a heavy stop (70mph-20mph) due to the nice slope in the front of the pan.

2. running extra oil would help in the above situtation (keeping the pickup covered). But running too much oil could cause unneeded splashing on the crank, lots of oil around the main seals (could lead to leaking) and in extreme cases (waaaay too much oil) a back-up at the oil drains.

Those are all extreme examples, but I ask, what are you doing to necessitate having an oil level that high? If you are RR your car, than increasing the control of oil around the pickup (via a better designed pan as well as an accumulator for 'just incase' insurance) would be a proper solution.

For DD, I don't see an extra qt or 1.5qts as being an issue based on what I have seen and measured inside the motor. That being said, I would make sure the PCV system worked correctly, as running more oil *might* (have not found a way to test this) cause other issues (that would be otherwise unseen) if you have too much crankcase pressure (leaky main seals, oil leaks in turbo, etc).

fwiw, I ran +1qt for years at Dr J's advice. I continually added .5qt until my gas mileage started to drop (1.5qt) - which indicates to me on a stock oil system that is about the point that windage becomes a factor. YMMV (pun intended)
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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+1 is plenty..

The bigger issue is our motors tend to use Oil even when running correctly so if you're on a stock fill it's very easy to chew through 1/2 a Qt or so in between checks then you hit the twisties or have to brake hard and it's RK time :(

Running +1 means you should never have less than stock and be safe.