valve stem fell...keeper question

[cinciguy89turbo]

So I started changing my valve stem seals yesterday and everything was good used a multitude of writeups to get all the way to compressing the springs back onto the stem. The methods for compressing them were not working for me (pvc pipe, indian rope (which I used to get the spring off), using a friend and I even tried a spring compressor) so I tried a couple different things. Long story short a keeper sprung out and IDK where it went. I spent 2 hours looking for it, and ended up taking more of my motor off to find it. It was the 1st spring so I didn't make it far with this. I was a sort of upset and said I'll order another keeper and finish doing the other seals until I find a method to compress these guys. I forgot to compress or use the indian rope trick on the next cylinder...The spring came out and the valve stem fell down :3d_frown:

My questions are:
Do I have to take off the entire head?
Can I just order a keeper or will I have to replace both of those stems as well?

Any extra advice would be awesome. This was my first time tearing into a motor.

 

[lewis15498]

Here is what I would do. Get a pocket flashlight, pull out the spark plug and shine it down the spark plug hole. look down the valve guide. if you can see light, then the valve fell all the way thru and is in the cylinder. if you cant see light, then the end of the valve is still in the guide. If the valve is still in the guide, get a really skinny magnet on a stick (so it will fit thru the guide without damaging it, stick it in there and try to pull the valve back up with it. IF the valve has dropped completely thru, feed some fishng line down thru the valve guide. Bend a coat hanger so its straight with a small hook on the end. try to hook the fishing line and pull it out thru the spark plug hole. so now the fishing line goes in the guide and out the spark plug hole. now, using a magnet on the stick try to grab the top of the valve stem and pull it up thru the spark plug hole. tie the fishing line to the tip of the valve with the line in the keeper grove. carefully lower the valve back down. then slowly pull the fishing line back out thru the guide and if your lucky, the valve will go back in the guide.

I have no idea if this will work, just trying to help you brainstorm. If all else fails, you have to pull the head off. but hey, you can change your HG while your in there and have one less thing to worry about. good luck.

 

[IJ.]

There's only 1 thou between the stem od and the guide id.....

Just pull the head and do the job properly.

 

[lewis15498]

There's only 1 thou between the stem od and the guide id.....

Just pull the head and do the job properly.

Yeah, now that i think about it the fishing line wouldnt fit. You would just end up getting it stuck. Sorry guy, i tried to help ya, but if its all the way thru, which it probably is, its gone. Pull the head.

 

[HommerSimpson]

IF the valve is still in guide... get with Matco... snap on... go to sears or decent tool supplyer.. get one of ther teloscopic rare earth magnets... and pray... also if it is still in the guide.. rotate engine till piston is just touching it then back off a tad .. so it cant fall all the way threw...


or just pull head... few hrs of fiddling... and you need to find that keeper...

head takes just a few more hrs if your not in a hurry..

If you do pull head... i found unbolting trans mount and jacking up tail shaft helps a great deal in removing head..

 

[rayall01]

The fishing line, or string will work, with a judicious application of super glue. If you can get the line and the valve out of the spark plug hole, as said previously, you can glue the line to the very top of the valve stem, after cleaning any oil off. If done carefully, you should be able to pull the valve back into the guide. This is however, a theory.
Based on whats been written so far, this is what I would try if it happened to me. (Keeping my fingers crossed.)

 

[rayall01]

In thinking more about it, it may be better to use a length of some old audio cable if you can find a thickness that would just fit into the guide. It would tend to center the stem, and make it easier to get it reinserted.

 

[IJ.]

What part of 1 thou clearence aren't you getting?

Your mythical magical fishing line needs to be 1/2 a thou thick...... :nono:
(a human hair is 2 thou)

 

[rayall01]

Apparently you're not getting what I'm saying, IJ. so I drew you a picture. Not trying to be an asshole, just showing cause I guess I wasn't clear enough in my description.

 

[lewis15498]

The fishing line, or string will work, with a judicious application of super glue. If you can get the line and the valve out of the spark plug hole, as said previously, you can glue the line to the very top of the valve stem, after cleaning any oil off. If done carefully, you should be able to pull the valve back into the guide. This is however, a theory.
Based on whats been written so far, this is what I would try if it happened to me. (Keeping my fingers crossed.)

Yeah, if you glue it on top i think this could work.

 

[rayall01]

Yeah, if you glue it on top i think this could work.

That's what I'm saying!:aigo:

 

[IJ.]

Must be damn good drugs..... :nono:

just pull the head off and fix the engine, the time the OP spends fucking around with this garbage it'd be done and at least he has a chance of finding the missing lock.

Even using my bore scope I wouldn't attempt the above "fix".

This is just plain embarrasing and something I'd expect from one of our junior members.

 

[lewis15498]

Must be damn good drugs..... :nono:

just pull the head off and fix the engine, the time the OP spends fucking around with this garbage it'd be done and at least he has a chance of finding the missing lock.

Even using my bore scope I wouldn't attempt the above "fix".

This is just plain embarrasing and something I'd expect from one of our junior members.

Is that massachusetts air, its gets us all fucked up!:crazy1:

 

[dumbo]

Fucking priceless guys. Listen to IJ. Gluing string to the top of an oilly valve stem somewhere you cant see, and the stem is probably on an angle now too.

 

[rayall01]

If I had a head here right now, I'd set it up and make a video of it getting done. You people don't know me, what I'm capable of, what my experience has been, and what other innovative ideas I've used to solve problems in the past. I've lost count of how many times people have told me I couldn't do it my way, and I've proved them wrong. Anybody near Winchendon got a head or engine available to do this? I'll come right over and video the process. Alternately, I challenge anyone to prove it can't be done this way.

 

[7MGTEsup]

How long does it take to undo 14 studs?

 

[cinciguy89turbo]

How long does it take to undo 14 studs?

IDK but I guess I'm about to find out. :aigo:

 

[jdub]

Once you do that, you will need to get a head gasket kit and replace all the gaskets (including the HG) and seals. Basically you are doing a HG job. Depending on the condition of the head it might be time to consider a valve job as well while it is off.

 

[lewis15498]

If I had a head here right now, I'd set it up and make a video of it getting done. You people don't know me, what I'm capable of, what my experience has been, and what other innovative ideas I've used to solve problems in the past. I've lost count of how many times people have told me I couldn't do it my way, and I've proved them wrong. Anybody near Winchendon got a head or engine available to do this? I'll come right over and video the process. Alternately, I challenge anyone to prove it can't be done this way.

Dude if you want to come over to raynham, your welcome to try it on my motor as im pulling it out anyways and the head is junk.

 

[rayall01]

Dude if you want to come over to raynham, your welcome to try it on my motor as im pulling it out anyways and the head is junk.

When is it good for you to do it?