Timing Question

[carter]

I got back to my car, and lined up everything and its all back to TDC. Thinkin about it, I'm not sure how to make sure the intake and exhaust cam are in time.

I kno line up the marks, but as i was lookin at the intake cam. I remembered reading that either the lobe under the oil filler cap, is suppose to be looking at me. Or its suppose to be under the lip of the oil filler cap opening. I just remember reading a thread where someone's lobe was under the lip and it was in timing?? I think...?? IDK

But anyway, I was wanting to know how do you check timing on the intake and exhaust cam. Is there any certain way or could one of you guys post a picture of the exhaust cam in timing and i'll just go from there. The exhaust cams first lobe is looking toward me *if your standing on the driver side*

Im not the best at comperhending,:3d_frown: so pictures help. :icon_bigg

But I put the timing belt and what not back on hoping that this is in timing and I've lined up the cps and tried to start it. It sounds like it really wants to start, but right before i had to go, I remembered that i didn't plug in the sensor for the afm. I don't know if that wouldn't make it start, but i can always hope its somethin really simple that i'm over looking.

thanks for your guy's help. I think i explained everything halfway decent enough to understand and all.
Carter, J.

 

[carter]

No one has anything?

 

[paradox616]

yeah under the oil cap that lobe is ment to be visible (0 lift)

in 1 engine cycle there is 720deg rotation remember the cam will rotate once per 2 crankshaft cycles,
set it to tdc in the compression cycle, it should be on 0deg at the timing marks

see below

cygnusx is VERY USEFUL
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EM&P=29

 

[ForcedTorque]

Be sure that the cam gears are installed correctly as well. There is a dowel pin between them. Make sure it is in the center hole of the 3 possible holes on the cams and the gears. Then line up your marks, and the cams should be in time

 

[92nsx]

Be sure that the cam gears are installed correctly as well. There is a dowel pin between them. Make sure it is in the center hole of the 3 possible holes on the cams and the gears. Then line up your marks, and the cams should be in time

^^^ yep then double check everything with a timing light and a jumper wire.

 

[paradox616]

remember static timing is 10deg BTDC....


is it possible to smash a valve into a piston if the timing is set incorrectly on the 7m?

 

[a_sesshoumaru]

remember static timing is 10deg BTDC....


is it possible to smash a valve into a piston if the timing is set incorrectly on the 7m?

not a chance

 

[ForcedTorque]

^^^ yep then double check everything with a timing light and a jumper wire.

That jumper wire IS important.

 

[jdub]

Easiest way to determine TDC:
- Remove all spark plugs (makes turning the crank easier)
- Place small diameter wooden dowel (~12" long) in the #1 spark plug hole
- Rotate crank damper CW to point at "zero" on timing case
- Observe dowel...height should peak at zero...rotate past zero to be sure

If the dowel peaks before/after zero mark, the damper is FUBAR and will need to be replaced.

If all is good...the damper should point at zero with both cam gears pointing at the index mark on the back plate.

With the cam gear and damper index marks aligned, the CPS should look like this installed:

The jumper wire on TE1 and E1 is not done until base cam/valve timing is set.

Gap your plugs while they are out

 

[paradox616]

and that just about covers it all

cool, so if my timing belt snaps(not that it would) i don't have to worry about smashing a piston into a valve?

 

[92nsx]

remember static timing is 10deg BTDC....


is it possible to smash a valve into a piston if the timing is set incorrectly on the 7m?

Nope, 7m's are not valve smashing engines.

 

[LoveMySupra]

Valve smashing = interference engine

I'm having a small problrm with my buddy's 87turbo. I thought that it may be a fubar harmonic balancer but I didn't check as per the suggestion back on page 1. I also know that the TCCS can play games on the human mind so...
Here's the deal, we replaced his timing belt, bought a new tps and got a very nice cps from pick-a-part. We hooked up the timing light to set to 10*btdc. We double checked static timing 3 separate times now but we cannot get to the 10. With the cps installed with #1tdc and the cam gears at their marks we can only get up to 8*btdc. We'll move the cps 1 tooth and then the degrees are 60-25*btdc. Move it another tooth and it doesn't start. Move it a tooth the opposite direction from timing marks and the degrees are 5*btdc to negative degrees.
We jump the computer and make sure the check engine light is flashing before checking with a timing light. It's like there's missing degrees: 25* to 0*btdc.
I thought that 1 time with only messing with the tps the timing jumped from 10*btdc to 15*atdc. Is the computer going wakko?
Thanks in advance.

 

[jdub]

The TCCS may play games on your mind...

Suggest you check the damper...then recheck damper/cam gear/CPS alignment

 

[carter]

Ok well here's the update, I got everything lined up and tried to crank it over. it turns over but still no start.

I got 2 codes
12 & 22

If i remember right the 22 is the coolant signal, and i found the my wires are broke, so i'll have to rewire that part but i'm still confused at 12. My guess would be that, all 12 means is that my cps is off.

Also I've read a couple different threads that said the lobe on the intake should be looking up through the oil filler. The only time that i get it like that is if the pin is in the first hole on the cam gear.

This is the first time i've put a car in time, and i'm confused as too how to double check if the exhaust cam is in time. right now its facing the same direction as the intake cam.

So if you guy's have a picture or somethin that would help out. When it warms back up, I'ma try and rent a timing light and go from there.

Carter, J.
ps. everytime that i've tried to put it in time and everything, i've turned the crank over by hand to see if i'd turn smooth and not hit anything. So just let me know what you guys have to say.

 

[jdub]

Sigh :3d_frown:

Didn't you read my previous post? (post #9)

Forget where the cam lobes point...the dowel trick will tell you when the piston is at TDC...at the same time the 2 cam gear marks should point at the 2 index marks on the back plate (gear on center pin on cams) and the crank damper mark should point at the "zero" index. The CPS should look like the pic. If all is correct, the cam/valve timing is as it should be...it really is that simple. If you don't understand this, you need to drop the wrench, back away from the car and find someone that knows what they are doing.

Code 12 is: No "NE" or "G" signal to ECU within 2 seconds after engine has been cranked. It is a CPS code...most likely the wiring or the connector. There are two "G" pick-ups that provide a signal (G1 & G2)...the car will run without one of them. If there is no NE signal reaching the ECU, the car will not run.

Code 22 is: Open or short circuit in water temp sensor signal (THW). Again, most likely a wiring or connector problem, but I have seen the sensor fail. In either case, the ECU uses a std temp (80 deg C) to substitute (fail safe mode). The car will run with this code, but may be difficult to start with low OAT because the ECU "thinks" the engine is warm...start-up enrichment, after-start enrichment, and warm-up enrichment are all affected.

 

[ForcedTorque]

I think one think that should be mentioned here is that the dowel pins in your cam gears should be in the center hole on both the cam and the cam gear. Your first hole comment made me doubt that you have that correct.

 

[grimreaper]

^ agreed, IJ has stated that you have to move both in sequence. They are not there for fine tuning individually.

 

[carter]

alright i got a bit of understanding, I'll check everything here tomorrow and update you guys on what's goin on. I'll reset the cam pins to the middle and check timing with the timing light.

Thanks for the input and i'll let you guys know what i come up with.

Carter, J.

 

[ForcedTorque]

Remember the timing light isn't going to help you, until you get it timed good enough to start.

 

[carter]

Well the code 12 ended up dealing with the cps unit. It started but turned right back off because i have alot of vaccum lines. But I'm lookin for the clip to get rid of the code 22.

But thanks for the input,
Carter, J.