Timing belt issue, need some input

[spoolint78]

I was fixing a few things today on my car, and I pulled off the timing cover.
Now the first thing i noticed was that the timing belt was not riding properly on the oil pump pulley. It was partially off.
When i removed the timing belt, the oil pump pull moves in and out of the motor, but not up and down. It does this by a fair amount.

Oil pressure on start up ranges from 45 to 55+ psi.
At 3000rpm when cold its around 70+psi, and when hot crusing at 3000rpm its between 36-40psi.

I was wonder if this was normal for the pulley to have that much play.
If not what could be the cause?
I just change the oil and it runs perfectly fine.
Just need some input
thanks.

 

[sneakypete]

i noticed the same thing with my car and apparently the play on the oil pulley is normal.

 

[spoolint78]

http://img532.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture487xq5.flv

here is a video image.
let me know if it works for you guys.

 

[Mr.PFloyd]

works for me man.
I have no idea if that is normal tho.

 

[jdub]

It's not normal. Either 1) the bolt securing the bracket to the block is loose, 2) the bolt securing the gear to the shaft is loose, or 3) there is excessive play between the thrust collar and #1 bearing (not likely).

In the case of the above video, it looks like reason #1. The front timing plate is what's not allowing the shaft to come completely out.

 

[spoolint78]

It's not normal. Either the bolt securing the bracket to the block is loose, the bolt secuting the gear to the shaft is loose, or there is excessive play between the thrust collar and #1 bearing (not likely).

The bolt connecting the gear to the shaft was tight, so it must be the bracket to the block. And I would have to take off the rear timing cover to see that correct?

 

[jdub]

Wow...you're quick.

Re-read above

 

[spoolint78]

^^
thanks bro.
I'm going to look into that.

 

[jdub]

If you pull that rear timing plate (and you'll have to in order to secure the oil shaft bracket), there's going to be some things to keep in mind.
- You'll need RTV to reseal the oil pan
- You'll need RTV on the top of the timing plate as shown in the TSRM
- You might as well replace the oil pump shaft and main seal.

It is going to be a challenge putting that plate back in and getting a good seal on the pan and where the top plate mates to the head.

 

[spoolint78]

motor was rebuilt roughly 2000km ago so the front main seal is new.
As for the oil pump driveshaft, I will inspect it to make sure its a ok.
Thanks for the input.

 

[Who]

Be careful not to over tighten the bracket bolt. I believe I read somewhere that you can damage cylinder #1 by over tightening it. Correct me if I am wrong senior members.

 

[jdub]

Alright then...seals should be good. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Who - you're thinking of the belt tensioner, but he's going to have to remove that to get the plate off.

 

[spoolint78]

yes, the idler pulley tensioner is what you are referring to.

jdub, thanks for the info, much appreciated.

 

[jdub]

You're welcome

 

[spoolint78]

Well here are the pics.
I guess I will be ordering a new oil pump pulley driveshaft.
Secondly, how does the bearing looking to you guys?
Do you think it needs to be replaced?















Here is a video

http://img532.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture226hb3.flv

 

[jdub]

Holy crap! So, it was the clearance between the thrust plate and collar

You could order a new collar from Jay Marks...the reference for removal/installation is page EM-85 in the TRSM. The problem I see is the front bearing is scored....EM-84 has the specs on it. You might be able to have a machinist clean it up, get a new front bearing, and hone to clearance. Is that front bearing scored up too? The pics are a bit blurry.

That's going to cost you and the oil pump shaft bearings are a PITA to replace, especially with the motor in the car. Might be worth while to see if anyone has a used complete shaft.

 

[spoolint78]

I'll try to get better pics.
I wonder if i should order the new collar and just replace that?
Or just buy a new driveshaft, or even a used one?
I think if I order the collar the shaft and bearing are pretty much already sized and fit perfectly, which save me from order a new bearing etc.
I will try to get a better picture of the bearing.

 

[spoolint78]

 

[jdub]

It's the 2 pics next to the bottom that concerns me...does the bearing have grooves in it where the dark lines are?
(sure looks like it)

 

[spoolint78]

went to go touch it with my finger nail, it was smooth all around.