The WeezL needs some electrical help!

[speed]

Okay, so I've been on the phone several times with Pete (Weezl) today, his car is having some serious problems. Here's the low down:

The car won't fire. When hooking a timing light up to any cylinder's wires, no signal is being sent. However, when you directly apply voltage to the ignitor, it will spark.

He's tried a second ECU, a second Ignitor, a second set of coils, and a second CPS, oh, and another ignition switch. The harness between the ECU and the ignitor is clean, as is all the other wiring. He's gone through the whole EFI section on the TSRM, everything it's passes tests.

"fucking cock sucker shit car" he just said. anybody have any ideas I can relay to him?


edit: and he wants some C4 (seriously)

 

[thechori]

i thought he got it running on 4 cylinders?

 

[cwapface]

I'm guessing the harness between the ECU and the CPS if it isn't throwing a code. Can he verify continuity on all CPS wires? Does the tach move at all when cranking or does it stay flat at 0? paging jetjock...

 

[a_sesshoumaru]

i say the cps wiring, check for colors

 

[jetjock]

http://tinyurl.com/2wqajr

I'd like to help him but if he can't signal trace he's stuck winging it. CEL on with key on? Than the ECU is powered. If not be sure it's grounded at the intake manifold. Make sure the igniter is grounded. It must be bolted to the body or it won't work. Treat the problem as a no spark rather than a no start. To avoid cranking remove the CPS and spin it by hand. He should hear the circuit opening relay in the pax foot well clicking when he does it. If not the problem likely lies on the CPS side of the ECU. If the relay clicks look for tach flicker. If none check for IGt at the igniter and 12 volts to the coil packs. Work forward or backward from there.

I'm sure he'll figure it out eventually and it'll end up being some stupid little thing. In the meantime he should calm down. No sense becoming pissed at an inanimate object. Tends to cloud one's thinking

 

[speed]

pete just asked me to ask if there's anyone in the houston area who would come help him figure this shit out. He'll pay ya!

he is getting tach signal (it does bounce), the CEL does come on, the ignitor is properly grounded.

and jetjock, can you clarify what you mean by 'check IGt at the ignitor'? Is that the whole apply 3v thing? If so, it passes that test.

At this point, its still not working. it *sort of* sputters now when trying to start (whereas yesterday it wasn't). its 'trying' to fire, but isn't turning over.


edit: he's thinking now that he might be flooding the cylinders. whats the easiest way to turn off the fuel pump, so he can dry crank it, and make sure that theres spark but without fuel

 

[jetjock]

IGt is the signal the ECU sends to the igniter to fire the coil packs. If the tach is flickering he has IGt. He ought to check the two other signals the ECU sends for identifying each cylinder but I'm guessing he has them.

Your first post says he has no spark but it sounds to me like the igniter is working. If so that leaves coil pack wiring assuming there's nothing else wrong with the engine. An old trick is to put a light bulb across the coil pack primary and see if it flashes when the CPS is turned or the engine is cranked.

I'm also assuming the valve timing and CPS has been set correctly. Has the engine run before or this a first start attempt after the rebuild? It's beginning to sound as if the problem isn't a lack of spark but it's tough getting all this second hand.

Unplugging the injector resistor or pump relay are two ways to disable fuel.

 

[Facime]

OK, rode down to the Borders to get some internet and try to extract enough info to make a final decision regarding this thing.

As Tim already stated, I have 12v at the coils (lead farthest from the clip on the coil feed harness) When applying the 3v trigger to the ignitor I get a needle deflection at the #1 lead at the coils as per the TSRM tests for the ignitor. I double checked continuity from both the CPS and the Ignitor back to the ECU and there is apparently nothing wrong with the harness on all 8 leads. Tach needle jumps when cranking, CEL comes on.

While its in this state I have an inductive trigger timing light connected to the #1 spark plug and get no spark (at least not one that I see in a 5-10 revolutions of the engine) I have also tried other spark plugs and have the same responce, no spark passing through the wires.


Seeing as Ive tried to "throw parts at it" as well in the form of another coil set, CPS, Ignitor and ECU, and none of those has cured the no spark issue, I really just dont know what else to do. Barring some new test or diagnostic Im going to admit defeat and tow strap the car to a shop and let an "expert" take their shot at it.

Anything else that I might be missing here that could possible lead to my no spark issue?


Oh yeah and a couple edits here: The car has started and run since the rebuild, just not on all 6 cyls. Its has gotten progressivly worse the more I attempt to fix the issue.
Im not pissed at an inanimate object, Im pissed off that I cant figure it out. I have an IQ over 140 and this hunk of steel and plastic is getting the better of my. For all my logic I cant seem to reason out the solution. All of the easy answers have been explored and the answer still eludes. Perhaps my frustration is affecting my ability to see the solution clearly, but whatever the reason, Im still left with a non running car.

 

[cjsupra90]

Have you double checked the short ground lead thats attached to the coil mounting bracket is connected on both ends and not broken anywhere?

 

[Idealsupra]

Have you double checked the short ground lead thats attached to the coil mounting bracket is connected on both ends and not broken anywhere?

that wont stop it from firing by any stretch of the imagination....


are all your grounds hooked up? the rats nest of grounds hooked up to the intake manifold? the ground wire from the back side of the head to the firewall? the large ground from the battery to the block?

after that you say you are getting a CEL... no codes however?

have you checked the relay JJ is talking about? what about the main relay? IGN fuse good? stock alarm not giving you problems? also if its sputtering are you sure you have the CPS in correctly? and not 180 degrees off?

just a bunch of stupid shit to get an idea where youre at....

 

[cjsupra90]

I dont know jay, I just fixed a car today that that wire was broken and it wouldn't fire, put a new eyelet on it and reconnected it to the coil bracket and the car fired perfectly.....

 

[Idealsupra]

I dont know jay, I just fixed a car today that that wire was broken and it wouldn't fire, put a new eyelet on it and reconnected it to the coil bracket and the car fired perfectly.....

i can promise it was something else lol...

my car runs everyday without that wire....and ive seen numerous others that do the same

i dont know how it could stop one car from firing and not matter on another.... :dunno:

 

[cjsupra90]

I dont see that either unless the others had the bracket grounded in another way. Today was not the first time that I have seen that wire keep coils from firing.

 

[speed]

okay guys on topic. No one really cares if your coilpacks are grounded or not (mine aren't sometimes).

 

[Idealsupra]

okay guys on topic. No one really cares if your coilpacks are grounded or not (mine aren't sometimes).

ummm considering we are trying to help you and weez by figuring out if that would keep the car from sparking i would consider that on topic...but if you want to get snippity about it then deal with it on your own.

 

[speed]

I was meaning the bickering back and forth.

 

[jdub]

The point is the ground to the metal plate holding the coil packs is a field ground. It will not have any bearing on the coil packs firing. Checking this is spinning your wheels.

 

[speed]

update: he's getting spark on every right side of the coil, but nada on the left. aka, cylinders 6, 4, 5. Nothing on 1, 3, or 2.

 

[johnathan1]

Check all the connections going to the coils...I would take each connector off and spray some contact cleaner/enhancer, and inspect the connections to make sure the pins are connecting properly...

Have the coil packs been tested as per TSRM?

 

[speed]

according to pete, a few days ago he tested them and they passed. today, he checked the resistance across the plug terminals, and his readings were around 9ohm (which is high).