Tell me it aint so....

[jdub]

JS - if you're going to take the head to the machine shop, have a valve job done while it's there...I'm not talking about major upgrade, just have the seats re-done (3 or 5 angle) and seals replaced. Have the guides and springs checked and replaced as necessary (probably all good...doesn't hurt to check). Check the shim clearances and install proper thickness shims before you install the head...lot easier to do w/ the head outside the car

 

[arz]

^^^NO WAY^^^

No offence jdub but you are not the king of cheap. I dont know if I am but im pretty close. If your dad knows the head dude see if he will leave all the valves and spark plugs in and the head completely assembled cams and all, and you can just blow all the chips out of the head after the re-surface. THATS THE CHEAPEST WAY, I have done exactly that it worked fine. Have the head dude do a vacuum check on the closed intake and exhaust ports and if they test good dont bother with a valve job.

THATS THE CHEEPEST WAY. not the best way but the best for the least money. I was in your boat once kid and I remember it well.

Good luck.

Keep us posted

 

[jdub]

Andy - No I'm not You also have the knowledge, shop, and the tools (or access to them) to do a lot of things yourself...as do I.

I do believe if you are going to take the time and make the effort to do something...do it right. My time has value...when I am going to do something major like pull the head, I will do as much other maintenance/work as I can while I have the head off.
Per what the OP had to say below:

The smoke was white at first, came out but did not linger. Then it turned into a lingering blueish tint smoke. The smoke is pouring out now.

Blue smoke = oil. Could be rings or the valve seals. The cost to have a head "refreshed" is just not that expensive. I'll bet the motor has pretty high mileage, and if it is the seals there will be one less problem to deal with later. Every time I have "went cheap", the 7M turned around and bit me...this is not the car to own if you do not have the funds to keep it in good running condition.

However, you are correct...you do not need to do a valve job when you replace the HG. IMO, doing a valve job is a good idea especially if the head has a lot of miles on it. I do believe in getting the most "bang for the buck" concerning the time and $$$ I have invested, but "cheap" and "Supra" are two words that do not belong in the same sentence. JS will make his own decision based on his time and funds.

 

[JSHeinrich]

Thanks guys. It does suck not having money and owning a supra.

I liek the idea of doing a valve job and replacing the seals since I have it off. BUT if it is too much money then I'll bypass doing it.

I also Just went to get my exhaust leak on my daily driver truck looked at and found out that i need a whoel new system, manifolds and all. Not to mention my frame is rusted and my one crossmember is about to crumble its so bad. Need new driveshafts and everything.

Its looking like I wont have extra money and might have to put the supra aside and not even fix it yet. I need a daily driver and a supra is not that.

 

[arz]

Jdub, yea I live by the motto "If its worth doing, then its worth doing right" but I remember my broke college days all too well. Just trying to help the dude get by as cheaply as possible.

Some of my friends call me Sanford and start humming the theme song every time they see me saving something that anyone else would throw out. Its just in my nature, and it has served me well.... MOST OF THE TIME!!!

But your right, if the head is off, I recommend doing everything you can afford doing while your there.

 

[ViR2]

I also have one related Q. My upper radiator hose is always hard to press, but my overflow tank is always at normal level. Can that be a sign for mild BHG or is that normal for it to be hard to press?
I had that a while back (800-1000miles) and then symthoms ware much a like, just with coolant filling the overflow...

P.S. I'm also using radiator cap from my mothers euro spec 2005 Lexus rx300...

 

[arz]

I thought I might have had another one recently on my Supra but it turned out to be the thermostat housing where it mounted to the head, you know that triangle gasket forward of the #1 exhaust port. It would leak and boil off most of what leaked and it was like 2 weeks (of once every 3 days the overflow bottle Empty light coming on) before I actually noticed coolant on the ground. I am still watching it with apprehension.

Make sure there are not any other leaks before you dive in to the head.

 

[JSHeinrich]

Ok, as an update, i finally got to work on it this weekended and got the head off today. I took some pics of the head gasket.

This looks like it could be the culprit....

Just by the look of it, it seems like it was banged or something while being put in which tells me it had a hg job before. any thoughts?

 

[JSHeinrich]

Also I had some questions about one of the water jackets on the exhaust manifold side...at least i think thats what it is...

This is a close up....should this one be the only one that is discolored like this?

It looks like it had moisture of some sort in there...

 

[JSHeinrich]

Bump...i was hoping i would get at least one response to my question

 

[buckshotglass]

Bump...i was hoping i would get at least one response to my question

SM was broken all day.

 

[JSHeinrich]

shows how much i know, I've been working day and night like crazy...

 

[3p141592654]

That is the classic failure mode of our swiss cheese gasket. The fire ring lost clamping force (check for grooving in the clamping surfaces) and was pushed by the combustion pressure away from the cylinder since the only thing stopping it was the tiny rib between the two water holes.

Clean off your deck and head and measure the fire-ring indentations around each cylinder with a straight edge and small feeler gauge. If its bad you will need to resurface the block. The head will have grooves too but those will get cleaned up when you resurface it.

Torque the stock bolts to 72 ft-lbs. You can also consider getting ARP bolts for more clamping force.

It also looks like your exhaust manifold was leaking a little. You would be well advised to heli-coil those studs. Much easier now than after its all back together and you strip a few when torquing the manifold nuts to spec.

 

[JSHeinrich]

I have a composite head gasket and ARP head studs. I'm not getting the block resurfaced, just a good cleaning. I am going to have the head checked to see if it needs to be resurfaced. Should I just get the head machined one way or another or just have it checked? I would love to just clean block and head real good and slap it back together....

It also looks like your exhaust manifold was leaking a little. You would be well advised to heli-coil those studs. Much easier now than after its all back together and you strip a few when torquing the manifold nuts to spec.

heli-coil???

 

[CBLEGUY]

I have a composite head gasket and ARP head studs. I'm not getting the block resurfaced, just a good cleaning. I am going to have the head checked to see if it needs to be resurfaced. Should I just get the head machined one way or another or just have it checked? I would love to just clean block and head real good and slap it back together....



heli-coil???

I just went through this. It sounds almost exactly like my story. I used studs, got the head resurfaced, torqued according to the arp literature etc.. . I put a composite HG in, and it lasted about 6 weeks I know it costs a lot of money, but I got scared straight. I now have my engine/tranny completely pulled, and am doing it the right way with a complete rebuild.
Just a warning, be careful or you'll be pulling it apart again...

 

[3p141592654]

I am not saying you have to get the block resurfaced, rather check for damage and then make your decision.

These engines seem to always have some grooving from the fire rings shifting around due to the CTE mismatch between iron and aluminum. It's not a good thing because the groove reduces the clamping force in the area of the cylinders, which is where you need the most force. Measure it, and make your decision. If it were me, any grooving deeper than 1mil would be grounds for resurfacing. Pay close attention to that #6 pot, since it failed there last time.

If you want to learn about heli-coils look here.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14788&highlight=heli-coil

 

[Jeff Lange]

Thread moved.

 

[sectorzero]

I have a composite head gasket and ARP head studs. I'm not getting the block resurfaced, just a good cleaning. I am going to have the head checked to see if it needs to be resurfaced. Should I just get the head machined one way or another or just have it checked? I would love to just clean block and head real good and slap it back together....

Be careful. Take a good look at the water pump. I had the same cooling issue with my 89 and after chasing it for awhile I found that the water pump seal was leaking. What made it such a mystery is it would only leak when hot at about 12psi. Standard pressure test didn't show a leak. I could make short trips and wouldn't lose a drop of coolant, then suddenly for no apparent reason the coolant would dissappear. It was an intermittent leak that did not show under normal pressure testing. The dead give-away was a small trickle out of the water pump weep hole. It wouldn't leak in the driveway, or even under a pressure test, but it would leak going down the road at full temp/pressure. I found the previous owner had replaced the water pump and the replacement pump was not pressed together to the right depth. This allowed the mysterious coolant leak. I Replaced the pump and the problem vanished. Before you put that thing back together look at that pump very closely. Your unfortunate overheats may have been what doomed the head gasket. You don't want something as cheap and easy as a water pump to ruin your just repaired motor.

 

[JSHeinrich]

Thanks for the advice....