I like the idea of knowing what percentage each bar is stiffer than stock. i.e. 1. 10%, 2. 25%, 3. 35%
Sway bar Testing
- Thread starter Wiisass
- Start date
So based on our suspension we should select the "right"? I dunno what I am trying to say haha.. something like how do we make a good pair up?Doward said:
What I plan to get from this testing is the actual bar rate expressed in ft-lb/deg, which can then be calculated to get the lb/in rate at the end of the bar. I will also be measuring weight and OD and anything else that could be of interest.
What this will allow us to do is to look at what amount of roll rate the sway bar is providing and compare it to the amount of roll rate from the springs. Based on the geometry and setup, I can predict the oversteer/understeer balance of the car, the amount of body roll per g, lateral load transfer, and a lot of other variables. Knowing these bar rates will help everyone to get the most out of their setup, whether they're looking for a primarily street car that handles well or a full out race car that only sees the track.
Based on the results of this data, I might end up suggesting some weird pairings. From the results of testing I have done for S13 stuff, I have found that a stock front bar is more than you would need for something closer to a track car, and then upgrading the rear bar to balance out the setup would be the best course of action. So something like that may happen for these cars as well.
But there are several different ways to properly setup a car and it depends on a lot of variables. So eliminating the sway bar rate as one of the unknowns will allow us to get even closer to predicting the balance of the car without wasting money on parts that we don't need.
Tim
What this will allow us to do is to look at what amount of roll rate the sway bar is providing and compare it to the amount of roll rate from the springs. Based on the geometry and setup, I can predict the oversteer/understeer balance of the car, the amount of body roll per g, lateral load transfer, and a lot of other variables. Knowing these bar rates will help everyone to get the most out of their setup, whether they're looking for a primarily street car that handles well or a full out race car that only sees the track.
Based on the results of this data, I might end up suggesting some weird pairings. From the results of testing I have done for S13 stuff, I have found that a stock front bar is more than you would need for something closer to a track car, and then upgrading the rear bar to balance out the setup would be the best course of action. So something like that may happen for these cars as well.
But there are several different ways to properly setup a car and it depends on a lot of variables. So eliminating the sway bar rate as one of the unknowns will allow us to get even closer to predicting the balance of the car without wasting money on parts that we don't need.
Tim
That is very cool. Can't wait for the findings so I can buy the right sway bar.
Also I remember you are talking about some steering spacers or something like that to get more angle. How are those coming along if you are even pursuing them.
Also I remember you are talking about some steering spacers or something like that to get more angle. How are those coming along if you are even pursuing them.
I'm still trying to figure out something with the spacers. I had some problems with the power steering system in my brother's car and I want to make sure that the spacers had nothing to do with it before starting to sell them. I'm 99% sure that they didn't, but I just want to double check before I sell a bunch of sets and people blame me for having trouble with their power steering and blowing seals and all of that if it were to happen.
Tim
Tim
Tim this is great news for all of us I wish I could help you and the rest of the supra world but I have stock pre 89s and you have them already.And are you making sway bars after the testing?
well good luck keep us posted
well good luck keep us posted
ok, kinda some BAD news...
there are quite a few different bars that came on our cars stock, this was from searching the online TSRM, I have NO IDEA about the narrowbodies, or the 1J cars... jeff Lange may be able to track those part numbers down and compare to my numbrs and see if they where different. Anyway, here's the list:
there are quite a few different bars that came on our cars stock, this was from searching the online TSRM, I have NO IDEA about the narrowbodies, or the 1J cars... jeff Lange may be able to track those part numbers down and compare to my numbrs and see if they where different. Anyway, here's the list:
Code:
Front Bars:
48811-24041 - 01/1986 - 08/1988 - MA70
48811-24050 - 08/1988 - 08/1990 - MA70
48811-24060 - 08/1990 - 05/1993 - MA70
Rear bars:
48812-14180 - 01/1986 - 08/1986 - MA70..USA..TWC W/TEMS
48812-14200 - 01/1986 - 08/1990 - MA70
48812-14210 - 08/1990 - 05/1993 - MA70Well it's not really bad news, it just means that I might have to test more than just the stock bars that I have. But I wonder if anyone can find out what the difference is before that. Either way, it's not that big of a deal. I can't imagine the stock bars being that different from each other.
Tim
Tim
Wiisass said:
my car has been down for 2.5 months, but i should be driving it on friday, sorry. too bad this thread wasn't sooner. gl though, im interested in the results
The JDM JZA70 Turbo-R cars have stiffer bars too. They are solid vs hollow North American spec ones. I have a front bar from my clip that I got laying around the shop.
Becauseican, does that mean I can borrow the front bar off of that clip? Any chance of a rear bar lying around somewhere or on someone's car?
Supraguru, with stiffer springs, you need less sway bar to keep the same roll stiffness. So it's not as much the speed of the weight transfer, it's the stiffness of the car and balancing it out. And like I have said before, bigger sway bars on an already stiff suspension can decrease the total grip capacity of the axle due to additional lateral load transfer from the sway bar.
Tim
Supraguru, with stiffer springs, you need less sway bar to keep the same roll stiffness. So it's not as much the speed of the weight transfer, it's the stiffness of the car and balancing it out. And like I have said before, bigger sway bars on an already stiff suspension can decrease the total grip capacity of the axle due to additional lateral load transfer from the sway bar.
Tim
Alright guys, let's get this testing started. I finally have some time coming up and would like to try and get this done now. I also recieved a nice donation from one of the Mk4 guys on Supraforums to help cover return shipping and the cost of the testing. So if anyone else who's not lending bars would like to donate to the cause to help ease the cost on myself and the people that are lending the bars, it would be greatly appreciated. It would be nice if this could just cost everyone a couple dollars for all the data.
Doward, jdub, Fuzz420, you guys still willing to lend me your bars?
Anyone else have bars that I can test? If those guys above come through, I will be able to test ST's, Whiteline adjustables and Tanabes, plus the pre-89 stock bars that I have here.
Tim
Doward, jdub, Fuzz420, you guys still willing to lend me your bars?
Anyone else have bars that I can test? If those guys above come through, I will be able to test ST's, Whiteline adjustables and Tanabes, plus the pre-89 stock bars that I have here.
Tim
do you still need mine?
I got them sitting in the garage, kinda wish I hadn't trashed my whiteline boxes as it would make shipping easy...
I got them sitting in the garage, kinda wish I hadn't trashed my whiteline boxes as it would make shipping easy...
Yeah I can Tim, I'm in Denver for a month though...I'll be going home, but with the Holidays, it's going to get crazy. I could get my Whiteline adj bars out next Tuesday/Wednesday...PM me the address.
Dugums, paypal for donations is sales@tipengr.com.
Poodles, you had 89+ bars right? I would like to test them. But let's wait a little while because I might be able to find someone more local with them.
Jdub, I'm sending you a PM right now.
Tim
Poodles, you had 89+ bars right? I would like to test them. But let's wait a little while because I might be able to find someone more local with them.
Jdub, I'm sending you a PM right now.
Tim
My Whiteline bars are on the way 
Tim - Are you going to test both end link positions for stiffness?
Tim - Are you going to test both end link positions for stiffness?