Slipping Clutch Diagnosis (PICS)

[CajunKenny]

Last January, I installed an ACT XTSS (522 ftlbtq). At that time, I also installed my Fidanza with a new insert. Additionally, I went through the motor and installed new bearings, gaskets, and seals.

Clutch has ~7k miles on it and was properly broke in over ~650 miles. No track time or excessive stoplight launches.

Re-tracing all my steps, I don't see where I missed anything during the install. New rear main seal (no evident groove on crank), Toyota FIPG Everywhere, ARP Flywheel Bolts, new Toyota Pressure Plate Bolts, all surfaces cleaned with Brake Cleaner during install, all torque'd to spec, etc...

The clutch slippage became quite apparent during my last dyno session. My power curve was extremely wavey and I couldn't get past 15.5-16 psi without noticeable torque loss.

Smells, aromas, etc... evident after highway pulls.

The rear main is leaking; but, the disk is oil free. This leaves me scratching my head, hence my post...

PICS:

 

[toyotanos]

Wow, that disc looks warped, Ken! Might have been an assembly problem since it seems to be centered round the rivets, too. Pretty sure the rear main wouldn't cause that to happen unless the oil is cooling the AL flywheel in a negatively way/at all. I'm sure you dont want to hear this, but I would suggest a different clutch setup entirely.

FWIW, I really like my Spec stage 3+, although I think its weight may slow your shifting time. Feels stock as far as engagement and pedal feel, but holds so much power! (ATM, the only issue I'm having is 3-4/4-5 no-lift shifts it will slip unless I lift to let it lock in) The stock flywheel is highly suggested with that clutch since it is likely to weld itself to the AL flywheel insert.

 

[CajunKenny]

Hi Steve. It looks warped to you? I thought I'd see uneven wear if that was the case. Not arguing, just giving my thoughts.

At this point, I'm a little afraid to purchase another disk @ $157.00 only to have it slip without even getting close to my power potential.

One thought I had was to stick a six puck in the place of the full disk. They both have the same tq rating.

 

[toyotanos]

Those dark spots on the disc are unworn areas, right? That's what it tlooks like...unless I'm crazy
I meant warped in the sense that where the rivets are is lower than the surrounding area- like when they were building the disc they bent the metal frame when staking the rivets, which is preventing 100% contact on the FW and PP.

I'm not a fan of the way puck-type clutches engage, but that's purely personal opinion based off of vehicles I've driven with them. Ironically, I'm actually going with a Spec twin plate clutch that has dual puck type discs. (Super twin, PT-trim) So we'll see if my opinion changes

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Did you check the play on the clutch pedal? How much play did you have. I adjust for an inch of play. TSRM says .59inch the most though, yet, I have made shifts at 6500+ RPM on my 2JZ car and have had no issues.

 

[CajunKenny]

Those dark spots on the disc are unworn areas, right? That's what it tlooks like...unless I'm crazy
I meant warped in the sense that where the rivets are is lower than the surrounding area- like when they were building the disc they bent the metal frame when staking the rivets, which is preventing 100% contact on the FW and PP.

I'm not a fan of the way puck-type clutches engage, but that's purely personal opinion based off of vehicles I've driven with them. Ironically, I'm actually going with a Spec twin plate clutch that has dual puck type discs. (Super twin, PT-trim) So we'll see if my opinion changes

Ah....gotcha. I see what you mean now. And yes. I agree 100%. The dark spots are unworn so a good conclusion is a defect in manufacturing. I suppose a call to ACT might be worth something. I don't expect anything; but, maybe from the description, they can tell me if it was a manufacturing or assembly issue. Hopefully they'll be honest.

I'm not a fan of puck chatter either; but, I can put up with it in this instance. I'll start looking at the Spec stuff.

 

[toyotanos]

Here's the clutches I'd suggest from Spec. Not even close to a master list, but mine has worked well, even though I bought it used!

Stage 3 520 lb-ft rated: $500
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Spec...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Stage 3+, 620 lb-ft rated: $650
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Spec...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Super twin PT trim : $1650
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Spec...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I also know Sean (funky_monkey58) likes Southbend clutches for their strapless PP's, but I have no info on them D:

The only time I'm having trouble with my clutch is the 3-4 and 4-5 upshift if I do a no-lift shift. Fun, but not so good for my clutch.

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Southbend for the win. My 1JZ car came with one and it is a nice clutch. Giken is going in it now.

 

[Poodles]

Pics of the pressure plate and flywheel?

 

[CajunKenny]

Absolutely! As soon as I get home.

 

[CajunKenny]

As requested:

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Not as bad compared to what I have seen. I have seen flywheels used to the point they are wavy when you run your hand across it.

Seems like the clutch was being engaged all the time, just a little.

What was the pedal adjustment like?

 

[CajunKenny]

I cannot feel any warpage/waviness across the flywheel or the pressure plate.

I never adjusted the clutch pedal. It's hard to describe; but, I would say that most of the engagement was about in the middle of the pedal.

I never drive with my foot on the pedal either.

I never had the flywheel insert cut because I called Fidanza and they said that there was no need. The inserts are "Ready To Use".

 

[Poodles]

Yeah, don't cut the flywheel inserts, you replace them. Everything looks pretty good (outside of your pilot bearing looking like it's on it's way out), so you caught it early. I'd contact them and see what they have to say as the clutch disk definately looks fishy.

 

[CajunKenny]

I'll call them tomorrow.

At this point, what is the general consensus...new disk...new insert...new pressure plate...? To me, the pressure plate looks fine and the insert doesn't have any hot spots or warpage.

Now the disk...that's a different story. A friend of mine said to just sand the disk with ~300 grit sandpaper to remove the glazing and run it; but, based on the abnormal wear around the rivets, I'm inclined to get another one.

My goal is to get this thing back on the road as quick as possible. Short of buying a whole new clutch kit anyway...

 

[Poodles]

See what they say first. If they tell you to go pound sand, take the glaze off the disk and the surfaces, and run it until you can buy a new setup. Of course, don't buy from the same brand if they tell you to pound sand

 

[CajunKenny]

Thinking back, I didn't have clutch problems until I switched to the Fidanza Flywheel. My previous clutch started slipping prematurely also; but, I thought it was because it was a stock replacement.

 

[CajunKenny]

Called ACT and they are willing to work with me. However, they haven't offered any details as to what that means yet. I emailed them pictures and am waiting to hear from them.

They did correct me on the rating of the TS2-XTSS. They say that it's rated for 425 ft-lb of "Crank" torque. Their website rates that clutch kit at 522. Go figure...

 

[CajunKenny]

Well, Ryan at ACT said that the clutch wear looks normal. In fact, he said that it doesn’t look like it’s fully broke-in yet.

He wants a couple more pictures of some specific areas of the pressure plate. I’ll get those to him tonight.

Something else he asked me was if I had adjusted the clutch pedal. He said that if it’s slipping it is because the clutch isn’t fully clamping due to an improperly adjusted clutch pedal.

I was not aware that a clutch pedal adjustment was necessary after a clutch replacement.

Anyone have any input on that?

 

[IBoughtASupra]

That is why I asked about the adjustment. I always adjust the pedal to have an inch of play wheather using a stock or aftermarket clutch. An improperly adjusted pedal will cause the clutch to be engaged, sometimes just a little, but when boosting, it will cause the clutch to slip and you will get the burning smell.

How do I know, it was improperly adjusted on my 2JZ car when I got it. First thing I had to do before driving it.