organizing for rebuild

[ross1]

just wanted to run this past some people with knowledge, if this looks like most of the important stuff for a rebuild. i'm not going for anything high hp just a modest build that if it lasts should be ready down the road for some extra power... anyway here's the list

new engine gasket #3
HKS stopper (whatever size i'm told by the machine shop)
Eagle Rods (with ARP hardware included)
ARP Crank Studs
rebuild gasket set (throwing out the HG)
Clevite main bearings
Clevite rod bearings
Ross pistons (size TBD by machine shop) and i think these come with rings
New water pump (gasket)
New oil pump (gasket)
Timing belt/tensioner

either doing all this on my own or looking at this
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/price/Toyota/Supra_86-92/performance/Engine/Engine_Longblocks

the longblock being $300 or so less than option 1 minus machine work

what do you guys think and did i forget anything important option 1


thanx for the read

ross

 

[johnathan1]

I wouldn't use the Ross pistons, I have heard bad things about them, Aaron has them in his car, and when it is warming up, it almost sounds like he has rod knock, but it's really piston slap, because of the Ross pistons, I would use the JE's...

 

[Insidious Surmiser]

also make sure you have a feeler gauge for the head... MAKE SURE the shop lapps the head and it needs to be around 10 RA (recomended by HKS)... there are hardly any shops that can do this around here (actually 1) besides nascar shops...

 

[Insidious Surmiser]

or weisco's

I wouldn't use the Ross pistons, I have heard bad things about them, Aaron has them in his car, and when it is warming up, it almost sounds like he has rod knock, but it's really piston slap, because of the Ross pistons, I would use the JE's...

 

[ross1]

so the je's on the HG would it be easier to use a different brand since HKS's recomended finish is this hard to achieve?

 

[jdub]

I wouldn't use the Ross pistons, I have heard bad things about them, Aaron has them in his car, and when it is warming up, it almost sounds like he has rod knock, but it's really piston slap, because of the Ross pistons, I would use the JE's...

That's funny...I've got Ross .020 over pistons; no piston slap at all. And I've seen the JE's piston slap during warm-up myself.

I had a set of Wisco's in my hand a few days ago...really nice looking piston and a good price too. A friend of mine (Toyota/Lexus Cert mechanic) who has has an '89 Mk III since it was new is going to use them with Eagle rods.

The HKS stopper is the best, no doubt, but it is over kill unless you're going to run big boost. A Cometic is a lot cheaper and only requires a RA of less than 50.

 

[johnathan1]

Wow, that's interesting about the JE's...anyone have any experience with the wiesco's?

 

[ross1]

i was just gonna use the stopper since i have a bead type now and blew it, b/c the mechanic that did the last HG job told me that the block looked ok so no need to pull the motor, just get the head straightened and it should be fine... a year to the day and it blew...but as long as i pull everything out a cometic should be ok? what about having to remove the rivet? can i fuck that up? or could a retard do it right?

thanx for the advice and keep the responses coming, as far as the list is it compete or am i missing anything other than misc. stuff...

thanx
ross

 

[jdub]

Take a look at this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15786&highlight=hardness

If your head is soft, it's moot to try and have it straightened.

Did you have the block decked to the RA spec on the last MHG? If not, that is very likely why it failed...you can't determine RA just by looking at it...it has to be tested. I'm not saying your mechanic is bad, but a lot of them don't understand that a MHG requires the level of machine work necessary to prevent failure on the 7M. The HKS gaskets require a pretty low RA; that's why a lot of guys go with the Cometic...it's more tolerant of higher RA numbers. Rule of thumb is to get the RA as low as the machine shop is capable for any MHG. Removing the rivet on the Cometic is a piece of cake

 

[ross1]

the last one failed b/c i didn't have the block shaved, just the head, which is why i'm either going to pull this whole thing and rebuild or get the rabid chimp longblock and pull the bottom half and just replace the bearing in there, bot the price i think the full rebuild of what i have is the better way to go but at the same time it's one of those... i don't know what damage if any has already been done to my current motor and what is re-usable and what isn't


ross

 

[SupraDreamPDR]

gotta have both the head and block resurfaced for MHG?

 

[ross1]

which is why i'm doing it again, i knew i should have done it the first time but i "let" the mechanic doing the job talk me out of pulling the block and surfacing it too... anyway the question isn't what i need to do this time as i know that... the question is, is that list complete as far as what i need for the rebuild minus whatever misc. little stuff i might need?

i appreciate all the responses, like i said though the reason it's being redone is b/c i didn't shave the block last time... it will be done this time but is the list complete as far as parts necessary for the rebuild?

thanx a bunch,
ross

 

[johnathan1]

I Posted this for another person here on the forums a while back...

You are going to need the following things (among others):

•Replacement OEM hg from Toyota: $85-100 (you're using a MLS)
•ARP head studs (you can get ARP mains and rod bolts too)
•A can of Permatex Brake Quiet: $5?
•Oil (to change the oil) & a Filter: $20-50
•About 2 bottles of Coolant $16
•Engine Head gasket set: (call Aaron to get the best price)
•Tube of "Toyota Seal Packing": $12
•New Turbo Oil line gaskets from Toyota (like $6)
•You can get some new hoses from GoodYear.com, but certain ones are only available through the dealer, like the elbows at the front and back of the head, some of the heater hoses, etc...
•Tools:
•Full socket and ratchet set w/ lots of different extensions
•Torque Wrench (got mine for $25 @ Autozone)
•9/16" 12-point deep-socket
•12mm x 1.25 pitch Tap <<I think?
•Basically just get all of the basics...

^^Add all of that to your list...That's all I can think of right now... add to it if you think of other stuff guys...

You should put every bolt, EVERYTHING in seperate ziplock baggies, and label each one with a marker as you go...and use masking tape and a marker to label EVERY vacuum line/hose/wire/connector you come across, and make sure to label injector connectors, and spark plug wires...

Any Questions? lol

edit: oops, I forgot you were doing a full rebuild, and not just a HG repair...My list is revised...

 

[IJ.]

Any of the forged pistons will rattle when cold as they're typically 5+ thou clearance compared to 1>2 for cast.

It's MUCH better these days as Forged used to run 8>10 and sounded like a diesel at idle

 

[hottscennessey]

are forged pistons all they're cracked up to be??...or is a setup with stockers and upgraded rods benefitial. (including other obvious components, arp hardware and bearings.. etc)

...I know I know.. it all depends on the goals. But how about for "modest" power levels like Ross is talking about? I guess that means keeping it under 550Hp.

 

[IJ.]

Tune is King!

Stock Genuine pistons with a good tune will survive nicely, Forged give you a little more leeway in case of an oops moment (lean out or boost spike)

 

[hottscennessey]

Thanks IJ, thats good to know!

Ross- Good luck buddy. Hopefully after this I'll never run into you on the side of the road, wether it be my car or yours.