New Crusade, or just a anti-Jihad?

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Supramania Contributor
Ok, since we are all debating on other theads things like religion, war and the conncetion between your sword and your pocketbook, let's do it on this thread where we can keep it on topic. (If that's even possible.)

My position.
After WWII the victors created Israel to try and compensate for the lack of action for so long while the Nazi's slaughtered the Jews.
The Arabs hate us for that. They hate the Jews, and always will. (has to do with a bowl of mash, but that's another story) Keep it simple, and the Jews and Arabs are both sons of Abraham, and like little kids, they fight all the time.

So, differeing points on who owns the land in the middle east has been causing wars for many thousands of years.

That we have allowed ourselves to become dependant on hydrocarbons from the middle east is unfortunate, but it is the current situation. This allows these silly fights to directly affect us.

The Crusades of the past were about taking back the "holy land" from the Arabs. This one if you want to call it that, is to protect our oil supplies, and at the same time, try and implant self rule into an area of the planet where religion has ruled for far too long.

The idea is given the chance to rule themselves, the Arabs will step up to the plate and make something of themselves since Islam came along.

I doubt it will happen. If they become educated as a country, and free, they are impossible to control with religion, and those religious leaders who have been in power for so long, do not want to lose that power at any cost. (Thus the fighting is really about power, not religion as I'm sure you all realize.)

What is the answer? Let's discuss.
 

GrimJack

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IMO, the answer is to make this big planet smaller. Take some people (preferably several thousand from each city) and show them the rest of the world. Let them live in Idaho for a month. Let them live in Beijing for a month. Run them through the subways in London. Then send them home and find another batch. Find a way for them to continue the friendships they create when they are out being a tourist.

It's easy to hate the big ugly guy on the other side of the planet, as described by your prophet.

I'd like to see that same prophet try to manipulate you into hating the cute girl that you made out with in a hotel hottub when you were on vacation.
 

CTsupra

Supramania Contributor
imo, if the arabs weren't so butt hurt about owning land in the middle east, the world would be at peace. apparently, it's the arabs that are always starting shit with everyone living in peace. what's Isreal? 2% of the middle east? just leave the jews the f*ck alone is what i say, and everyone will be fine.

that's never going to happen, so we go to war to protect our friends (read allies), and what happens when you gop to war with the U.S.? we mop the floor with your sorry ass. proven fact.

of course we're dependant on middle east oil. whoever controlls the oil rules the world. some U.S. citizens say we shouldn't be trying to control the oil. why not? it's only a matter of time before somebody else trys to go after it and do you think the U.S. is going to let that happen? i think not. if we control the oil, hey! good for us! life isn't fair. we sell oil to the rest of our allies, and fuck our enemies. it's the art of war folks.

oh yeah, and all of the anti-American arabs should die. death to iran, death to afghanistan, death to iraq, lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalla! fuck tards.
 

Joel W.

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yikes, brave topic...i tend to agree with grimjack as to what its going to take to get people to play nice together.. unfortinately, i think we are, and have always been destructive in nature (people in general) . when ever there are different social classes in any society, one will always try to oppress or kill the other weaker one.. the bees do it, the ants do it, why should we be different.. the problem with the extremeists in the middle east is they believe in what there doing so strongly that they will not hesitate to sacrifice theirs or anyone elses lives for there convictions or religeouse beliefs....that my friend is hard to fight against...

Edited, I was watchin this show on one of the discovery channels "off to war" I will sum it up, ... its a documetary about a hand full of people spending 18 months in iraq at war fighting insurgents... I admit going in i had preconcieved ideas that our solders would come out of there tour of duty feeling better about what they had done there and how they felt about the people or civilians there, to my amazement, it seemed all of soldiers came back "hating" not just the insurgents, but the women and children too. im quoting here,,,,"saying the women will just breed insurgents and the kids will just grow up to become insurgents" it just seemed so wrong, but then again im not in there shoes, and i dont see what they see every day...
 
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MDCmotorsports

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IF you look at oil, 33% of our oil comes from the US itself. Only 3-9% actually comes from the middle east.

As for the Holy land, its a big mess.

Between the Muslims, Jews, and Christians it will take God himself to sort it all out.

If you're Christian, you know that God is comming back and soon all will be sorted out.

Thats really all I can think about right now.
 

Joel W.

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Jesus is back and hes pist off..

sunday Sunday SUNDAY. Its the second coming of jesuses battle royal cage match.... well sell ya the whole seat, But you will only the EDGE!!!

i know i know, i am sooo going to hell for this.. hahahahha
 

MDCmotorsports

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Joel. That is funny. Seriously.

But, it says in THE BOOK that the last days are....

EXACTLY WHATS GOING ON NOW.

Im not gonna turn this thread into a preaching thread, but yeah its that big of a mess over there that GOD is going to have to sort it out.
 

lagged

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CtSupra said:
imo, if the arabs weren't so butt hurt about owning land in the middle east, the world would be at peace. apparently, it's the arabs that are always starting shit with everyone living in peace. what's Isreal? 2% of the middle east? just leave the jews the f*ck alone is what i say, and everyone will be fine.

that's never going to happen, so we go to war to protect our friends (read allies), and what happens when you gop to war with the U.S.? we mop the floor with your sorry ass. proven fact.

of course we're dependant on middle east oil. whoever controlls the oil rules the world. some U.S. citizens say we shouldn't be trying to control the oil. why not? it's only a matter of time before somebody else trys to go after it and do you think the U.S. is going to let that happen? i think not. if we control the oil, hey! good for us! life isn't fair. we sell oil to the rest of our allies, and fuck our enemies. it's the art of war folks.

oh yeah, and all of the anti-American arabs should die. death to iran, death to afghanistan, death to iraq, lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalla! fuck tards.

ignorance. here it is folks, right above this sentance in quotes.

if you think for one second that the israelis arent just as nuts as the palestinians, well you should open your eyes a little bit wider and learn to read the newspaper.

people we are all fucked. we are just pawns of the government and the corporations that run it, and these stupid arguments are just taking your mind off of the fact that the government dosnt give two shits about its individual citizens.
 

Joel W.

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Mdcmotorsports, yeah it was only meant to be a joke. no offence meant to anyone.. but i agree more or less.. i guess im spiritual but not religious, i dont folow the book, i just try to make it day by day without hurting anyone to much, just incase im wrong....
 

kwnate

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lagged said:
if you think for one second that the israelis arent just as nuts as the palestinians, well you should open your eyes a little bit wider and learn to read the newspaper.

And what newspaper do you suggest? Seems like they all say the same thing... If you add to the loud mouth liberals undermining our troops in Iraq then you are no better than Jane Fonda and John Kerry. Who's team are you on? We're at war, you cannot debate that. Mistake or not, here we are at war, you cannot pull out now. The goal is to turn power over to the iraqi army once they can handle it. Should we set a date and pull out, the very next day you'll see bombings all over and all of a sudden the insurgents are back... The Bush administration isn't perfect, nor was any other prior administration, but if the left in this country do not stop politicizing this war than it will become what they've wanted this whole time, another vietnam... It's all propoganda. It demoralizes the troops. Support your troops and your president. I can't believe how quickly you all forget about 9/11... (Saddam is a terrorist dictator and had terrorist training camps. Supporters of terrorism are enemies of the USA) These guys wouldn't hesitate for a second to blow your head off, your moms head or your little sister... They want to meet their maker?? We will happily send em there. Liberals--> the enemy within...
 

Joel W.

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i agree kwnate. i suppoted the war in the beguinning, but i think the jobs been done. suddam and his thugs are gone, the terroist camps are destroyed, the iraqis have voted, i say time to set up a card board base and get our guys and gals home. were just pissing them off now... just like id be pissed if someone elses army was in my town...
 

lagged

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kwnate said:
And what newspaper do you suggest? Seems like they all say the same thing... If you add to the loud mouth liberals undermining our troops in Iraq then you are no better than Jane Fonda and John Kerry. Who's team are you on? We're at war, you cannot debate that. Mistake or not, here we are at war, you cannot pull out now. The goal is to turn power over to the iraqi army once they can handle it. Should we set a date and pull out, the very next day you'll see bombings all over and all of a sudden the insurgents are back... The Bush administration isn't perfect, nor was any other prior administration, but if the left in this country do not stop politicizing this war than it will become what they've wanted this whole time, another vietnam... It's all propoganda. It demoralizes the troops. Support your troops and your president. I can't believe how quickly you all forget about 9/11... (Saddam is a terrorist dictator and had terrorist training camps. Supporters of terrorism are enemies of the USA) These guys wouldn't hesitate for a second to blow your head off, your moms head or your little sister... They want to meet their maker?? We will happily send em there. Liberals--> the enemy within...

i am on no bodies side. " Liberals--> the enemy " that right there is rediculous. who are the liberals, please tell me? who is this imaginary enemy?

see, you bring up 911 and saddam and the atrocities that he has commited in an attempt to use peoples emotions to get them to make irrational decisions.

everyone is all bloodthirsty and ready to kill anyone who even seems like they have a different POV than you do. this "liberal" label is a nice catch all for anyone who dosnt directly agree with what you say.

you guys are all waisting your time. the governments of the world all play their games and you know who loses? not them, US! our fucking people lose their lives because the governments want to play games.