Mk3 Heart-transplant or rebuild. 1JZ-GTE swap or 7M-GTE build? Help.

[SmithElite12s]

I figured this would be the appropriate section to post this question.
Here's the story:

I currently own a 1986.5 Mk3 Toyota Supra (n/a 7M-GE with W58 5 speed) with 115k miles on the chassis and only 8k miles on the rebuilt engine. It's been stock ever since my father helped me rebuild the engine a few years ago. Well now that I have finally begun college and the car is officially mine I figured I really want to invest in it to try and build the car that I want. Currently I am going to school for High Performance Engine Machining so regardless of what I do the engine will be torn down over the next year and have head work done to it (exp: port and polish, 3 angle valve job, pocket porting, etc.) but I will most likely keep the internals of either engine fairly stock besides maybe an aftermarket camshaft and maybe replacement valve springs (obviously turbo pistons if I turbo the 7m).

I want to do one of two things. A) Turbocharge my 7M or B) Swap in a 1JZ-GTE single turbo. Regardless I plan on swapping my W58 for an R154.

My goal for the build:

I want something that can be a fun daily but that I can also take out to an autocross event, a road course race, and even a few amateur drift events. The build will go over the next year of my school so I have time to do a build properly and I also have time to decide and get more information. I would like to make 300+ horsepower to the wheels so I'm just looking for decent power not some monstrous 700hp build. My school has a very accurate Mustang Chassis Dyno so that I can find out how much horsepower I am making (currently 200 horsepower and 193 ft/lbs of torque to the wheels with my current setup).

I want to find out from the community if there are any problems/flaws that I should know about each platform. I have some general knowledge but I know for a fact that a lot of you are going to know way more about this sort of thing.

So my main question is, which option will be the most affordable and reliable?

Any information and help will be much appreciated.

 

[AbsoluteSpeed]

It's really going to come down to a personal preference. Each motor has its pros and cons.

If you go with the 7M I would try and pick a turbo block (preferably from an 87-88 for simplicity). It benefits from having oil squirters that help keep the pistons cool.
Being a half litre bigger the engine has more torque but generally more reliability issues (the people of the Internet are going to have fun with that one)

The 1J is going to cost more to purchase and like said before have less torque but will be a rev happy engine.

 

[89gte]

Turbocharging your 7m would be more affordable. Both will be reliable as long as you don't cut any corners when you're building either of the engines. Basic mods should get you there such as Walboro fuel pump, 550's, lexus afm, DM57 trim, 3' exhaust, ect for 300 hpw

 

[SmithElite12s]

I forgot to add this before but if you guys could add a basic grocery list of some parts that may be required that would be a great help as well. Thank you.

 

[AbsoluteSpeed]

Here are a couple threads that have a NA-T parts list.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?132513-My-7MGE-NA-T-Lots-of-good-pics-and-info
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?113579-Non-Turbo-to-Turbo-(NA-T)-FAQ

After that it is a short trip to 300hp.
Lexus V8 AFM ~$80-100 (used)
550cc injectors ~$300 (used) or $450 (new)
Walbro 255lph fuel pump $93 (new)

Add a 3" exhaust and bump up the boost to 10-12psi (that will still be under fuel cut) and you're ready to rock.
If you run decide to turbo the NA block (with the high compression) you'll want to avoid detonation by running high octain gas and use a wide and to monitor the AFR's.

I don't know much about tuning a 1J but I imagine it isn't much different.
New fuel pump, injectors and up the boost. Then wait till the stock twins blow and go single.

 

[Grandavi]

NA-T is fine, but from my understanding, not as reliable and more expensive than picking up a 7MGTE and dumping it in.
Personally, if I was starting from scratch? 2jz... but realise that its a different ballgame. You will have to replace a lot of things which i can't advise on because I ended up staying 7MGTE... but have done a lot of reading.
Google is your friend (especially for searching in this forum.. for some reason google finds the stuff better than the forums internal search function).

Remember.. budget will define your route. Also.. skill level, tools, time and a place to work are critical. (I had a large budget, and little of the rest.. so it was a lot more money.. lol, but I went in with eyes wide open and screamed for the whole ride... eyes watering now.. catching breath...)

 

[SmithElite12s]

The budget I would LIKE to shoot for would be around $3000 absolute maximum. It will be over a year like I said so I don't need all the money at one time. Tools and work space is no problem. I have a massive toolbox filled with tools that I brought to school, my father has owned a local shop for the last 14 years now so he has plenty of tools still. Plus I can also use one of the stalls at the shop so none of that is a problem. My father also worked at a Toyota dealership a few years before that. It's the main reason why my first car (in my name) was a Supra haha.

 

[SmithElite12s]

Thanks again for the help so far guys. I'm gonna wait and see what else people have to say until I make the final decision. I got plenty of time to decide anyways haha.

 

[Grandavi]

With your budget and tools I would pick up a 2jz clip with the r154... Use what you need, part out the rest and go single turbo.

 

[AbsoluteSpeed]

With your limited budget I would stick with the 7M.
Get yourself a complete 7MGTE for around $1000, all the upgrades I mentioned above will be just under $1000 and your transmission swap (with a new clutch) will be yet another $1000. If you have anything leftover change the head gasket and do some routine maintenance. (Probably best to do that last part before you start the upgrades).

If I was tackling a 2J swap I would at least double that budget.

 

[Backlash2032]

Above all, I would definitely replace ANYTHING that usually fails with 7Ms. Replace ALL hoses. go through the wiring harness with a fine toothed comb. Replace sensors. MHG. You get the gist of it.

 

[SmithElite12s]

Like I said the entire engine will be torn down so that I can build it in my Advanced Engine class next year so all gaskets will be replaced along with bearings and other odds and ends items that need to be replaced.

 

[SmithElite12s]

With your budget and tools I would pick up a 2jz clip with the r154... Use what you need, part out the rest and go single turbo.

I had thought of doing that with a 1jz platform instead of a 2jz with a company called TigerJapanese. Only problem is they don't have any R-154's in stock.

 

[Grandavi]

I have seen front clips with the R154 on ebay for 2200-2700. Doesnt leave you much for extra parts (which is why I suggested parting out the rest.. but if your doing it in a classroom setting (shop) I would stick with the 7M

just was browsing ebay... wondering if all the 2jzGTE's have all gotten eaten up.. couple on there, but all with auto transmissions....

 

[OneJArpus]

Where's the "FUCKING PICK ONE AND STICK WITH IT ALREADY POLL" jebus lol

 

[SmithElite12s]

If I do go 1jz I was thinking about taking my entire 7m/W58 setup and selling it to help put some money back into the operation. I probably won't get much for the set up but someone else would be able to use it for maybe a spare or even a project engine. Who knows. Again this is all many months down the road from when this will be 100% decided.

 

[supraguy@aol]

If I do go 1jz I was thinking about taking my entire 7m/W58 setup and selling it to help put some money back into the operation. I probably won't get much for the set up but someone else would be able to use it for maybe a spare or even a project engine. Who knows. Again this is all many months down the road from when this will be 100% decided.

Selling the "entire 7M/W58 setup" will net you about $300.
That would almost buy you a good clutch. but not quite.


I say buy a 7MGTE setup as mentioned above.

PS- How did you get 200whp out of a 7mge?

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

You could pull 200WHP from a 7M-GE, but it'd probably cost about as much as a GTE swap.

I looked down this path, far enough to know that it wasn't for me. I looked at turbocharging the GE (Not hard at all, really, but with some limitations that I didn't want.)

Cheapest/Simplest way: Buy the CT26 and a stock manifold, some sort of downpipe, intercooler, and some sort of additional fuel solution. It'd work, be as reliable as your 7M is now, which is to say that it'd show you where the weak point is in the engine. I'd probably also upgrade the radiator and the rest of the exhaust, too.

The better way is to get the 7M-GTE. You get better engine management, and more headroom for improvements. You get a tried and true, proven upgrade path. You get better support from the community, and the ability to just take the car to a mechanic for service if need be, and have some hope that they'll do things correctly, without breaking your custom one-of solution to something. You get good aftermarket parts support without having to figure out is you need something else, and it's relatively inexpensive.

The 1JZ is also not a bad swap. Done many many times, again, a tried-and-true upgrade path, but... Spendy. If I were to go JZ, it's be a 2JZ, but that's me. The engine itself costs more, and there's more wiring work to make it live happily in the chassis, but you're looking at that with a 1JZ anyway with the pre-89 wiring harnesses anyway. Well, some of it.

Oh, and for the 7M-GE setup that you have now, you could probably make more money by finding someone doing a 7M swap into a 4Runner and selling your flywheel, clutch and bellhousing to him. Those parts from my NA setup brought in more money than the engine and transmission. (Well, I gave the transmission away, and I think that someone offered me $50 for the 7M-GE, but mine was not in ideal shape.)

 

[SmithElite12s]

Selling the "entire 7M/W58 setup" will net you about $300.
That would almost buy you a good clutch. but not quite.


I say buy a 7MGTE setup as mentioned above.

PS- How did you get 200whp out of a 7mge?

I only ran it on 91 octane. I have a little bumped compression but not very much. I made about 5 or 6 pulls. With every pull it gained horsepower because I guess my father told me the computers are really good at relearning for the way you're driving. Not sure if that's totally true but on the 2nd to last pull I got 200whp and then I made one final pull and it stayed at 199whp so it was at it's peak. First pull was like163whp.

 

[SmithElite12s]

The comments are all pushing towards 7M-GTE. But the poll says 73% say 1JZ-GTE swap. Do any of you 1JZ supporters have some reasons, advice or other information?