Military

[whenmunkysfly]

Bondie - You ever been in a combat aircraft trying to ID ground vehicles from 10,000 feet or higher? Working a "kill box" in which no friendly forces are supposed to enter or be present? Ever have to make a combat decision to fire or not in seconds?

I have...in a "fast mover"...a heck of a lot faster than an A-10.

There have been friendly fire incidents in every war ever fought...the differences today is the pace which combat occurs. In Iraq and Afghanistan it's compounded by the nature of the conflict...the enemy gets in close and a bomb (no matter how "smart") and cannon fire is not very discriminate. Just to illustrate the point, 24% of the 148 Americans killed in Desert Storm resulted from fratricide:
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/du_ii/du_ii_tabh.htm




And how many Americans have been killed in Iraq compared to British?

It's pretty easy for the media to throw stones...bet you that the folks writing these articles have never served. This is especially true of the British tabloids like the Sun (like these guys are credible)...sensationalism is the name of the game. Ever consider that a video like this is a compromise? Weapons symbology, sensor imagery and weapon ranges are all very useful to an enemy...ever thought that's why this kind of video is not made public? The media wants to sell papers...they pine for this kind of thing...they have no regard for the reasons that the US military (or the British military) has to keep this info from being made public.

And here is another thing to consider. It is American jets providing close air support to ground forces that include British and Canadian units. Ever considered how many times these jets have saved lives by preventing the enemy from getting in close enough to kill coalition soldiers? You won't hear about that in the media...it doesn't sell papers. American troops make up the overwhelming majority of combat forces around the world, and are therefore more likely to be involved in friendly-fire incidents.

The US DoD provided info and this video to the British MoD concerning this incident...that is done in an effort to keep it from happening again. We do not make the names of the individuals public...it serves no purpose other than to satisfy the media and it opens up these individuals to lawsuits. You can call it "stonewalling" if you like, but there is a big difference between a crime and a mistake. If these two pilots had violated the rules of engagement, they would have been punished...they knew that. Maybe you should consider that these pilots will have to live with that mistake the rest of their life.



If you think for one second that these American officers intentionally and knowingly attacked British APC's...then you are full of shit.



.

Amen

 

[rakkasan]

a lot of the US militay guys iv been with or meet in person its shoot first count bodys later althought you guys seem to know were to point the right end.

Horse shit, pure and simple. I'm in the Infantry, so I know for a fact that what you state is a load of shit. Don't throw out insults like that if you want the conversation to remain civil.

 

[CTsupra]

With a scope almost anybody is good. Question is, how good are you on iron sights? And last I checked, Marines have a different course of fire for the M16, not sure about the M9 though.

I just qualified at ft. bragg in october before getting over here. 38/40 with iron sights, and just for kicks 40/40 with cco's. This was with an m4. You don't qualify with scopes, ever. I was just stating a point with the scope. 36 hits is expert.

The Army standard qual is 20 prone supported, 10 prone unsupported, and 10 kneeling. 300 meter range.

 

[OneJoeZee]

Yes, yes what can we do you for? :evil2:

I have some pesky weeds in my garden. Can you help out?

 

[RHDMK3]

With a scope almost anybody is good. Question is, how good are you on iron sights? And last I checked, Marines have a different course of fire for the M16, not sure about the M9 though.

On the M16 course, the AF uses iron sights. The M4 is the course that they use a scope on. At least in the AF anyways...

 

[Ckanderson]

anyone in the coast guard?

 

[AF1JZ]

What's your job in the AF RHDMK3? I'm a crew chief on the C-17. We (at mcguire) retired the C-141 and got the new airframe.

 

[Dirgle]

USN AT "Intermediate" Pourier here.

Navy and proud of it.

As far as the whole Marine, Army thing goes. I can't see the training being the same. the basics maybe, but the details must be different. The psychological training is definitely different. I know both of them, and the Marines are a totally different creature. I served for 8 months along the Marines, PT-ing with them, and going to AT school with them. All I can say is I have a tremendous amount of respect for them. They maybe a little different in the head, but they are programed that way in order to do there job better.

 

[AF1JZ]

I have the most respect for all our branches. We all serve our purpose to complete the mission. Thanks to all you guys for what you do.

 

[armyastro]

us army 8 years now and did the Iraq thing 13 months and will be going back soon.... everybody can say that they shoot expert and shit all the time will evry weapon m16, m4, m249, m2, m24, ect but it all comes down to hitting flesh and not paper. if you cant hit SOMEONE (living) from a few hundred yards or from a moving hummer with a m2 50cal while getting shot at and rpg'd then it all dont count... half the training we do and did had almost nothing to do with anything we did while in country and i have 5 MOS's..

 

[AF1JZ]

everybody can say that they shoot expert and shit all the time will evry weapon m16, m4, m249, m2, m24, ect but it all comes down to hitting flesh and not paper. if you cant hit SOMEONE (living) from a few hundred yards or from a moving hummer with a m2 50cal while getting shot at and rpg'd then it all dont count...

Good point

 

[RHDMK3]

What's your job in the AF RHDMK3? I'm a crew chief on the C-17. We (at mcguire) retired the C-141 and got the new airframe.

My AFSC is 2T351 ( Vehicle maintenance.) But for the past few months, and probably until I get out in the summer I am working Security Forces. I am stationed at Yokota AB. Are you based out of McGuire?

 

[AF1JZ]

My AFSC is 2T351 ( Vehicle maintenance.) But for the past few months, and probably until I get out in the summer I am working Security Forces. I am stationed at Yokota AB. Are you based out of McGuire?

Yup, I'm at mcguire. At Al Dhafra right now. I had orders to Yakota at one point. They got cancelled because the doc said I had sleep apnea. That's all fixed now. But, doubt I'll get those orders again.

 

[RHDMK3]

Something that'll help you get orders to anywhere is going into the orderly room and updating your dream sheet once a month. But change only your number 3 and your number 4 choices around. Switch them back and forth basically. I know it sounds odd, but it worked for me. It's worked for the few other guys that told me about this as well. When I was at Moody AFB I did this and after about 3 months I got my number three choice. Long story short here I am in Tokyo. Lucky you, your in Al-Dhafra How's that working out for ya?

 

[AF1JZ]

Lucky you, your in Al-Dhafra How's that working out for ya?

I'd have to say it's been working out pretty good. Very nice weather (75 today), nice new dorms, olympic swimming pool, and all the tax free/haz duty/fam sep/hardship. So, it could definitly be worse.

 

[RHDMK3]

Damn, and I thought I was lucky getting sent to Afghanistan last year. Holy shit bro!

 

[CTsupra]

us army 8 years now and did the Iraq thing 13 months and will be going back soon.... everybody can say that they shoot expert and shit all the time will evry weapon m16, m4, m249, m2, m24, ect but it all comes down to hitting flesh and not paper. if you cant hit SOMEONE (living) from a few hundred yards or from a moving hummer with a m2 50cal while getting shot at and rpg'd then it all dont count... half the training we do and did had almost nothing to do with anything we did while in country and i have 5 MOS's..

this is all true, and it also comes down to if said person will actually fight back. i've been in a fight for my life already and it's not fun. full ambush - i.e.d. followed by rpg's and small arms fire. i was gunning on a m240, and believe me i shot at everything i could tell was enemy. confirmed kills as well. lost a good friend too.

 

[CTsupra]

My AFSC is 2T351 ( Vehicle maintenance.) But for the past few months, and probably until I get out in the summer I am working Security Forces. I am stationed at Yokota AB. Are you based out of McGuire?

oh god. we have a few of those ptat guys where i'm at. they swear they're freaking special forces, lol.

 

[Nick M]

Which is why I asked about the recent one, not from 3 years ago.

oorah

Yut Yut, devil dog, semper fi, oohrah...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V41X8rp4Cso

 

[bondie]

And how many Americans have been killed in Iraq compared to British?

It's pretty easy for the media to throw stones...bet you that the folks writing these articles have never served. This is especially true of the British tabloids like the Sun (like these guys are credible)


If you think for one second that these American officers intentionally and knowingly attacked British APC's...then you are full of shit.



.

You obviously didn't read the link to the TIMES Newspaper then.

Also I have NEVER ONCE said that the pilots intentionally took out British troops.

BUT, this mistake happens too often and its not just your fast flyers, it's the grunt on the ground as well, he's just as dangerous as the flyers in any combat zone.

As for British taking out american troops, you could count that number on one hand and still have fingers left over.