How are your stores ammo shelves looking in your state?

[suprarx7nut]

Price gouging generally refers to items necessary for basic survival. Ie, food and clothing after hurricanes in Florida. Ammo doesn't fit this description.

Stores buying up goods from retailer x and selling on for a profit is wrong but that's not price gouging, IMO. I believe most companies if aware of that activity will terminate that shop as a vendor of their product. I haven't heard of that happening on any kind of scale capable of impacting the entire national supply of ammo. Demand is crazy high right now and prices should rise. If they rise too high then people, like you, will refuse to buy and will move on to another store with more reasonable pricing. This mechanism is what makes a free market economy free.

There's no natural disaster threatening your well being which ammo will solve so prices raising are just simply a reaction to extreme demand. No foul play there.

Don't like the high prices? Buy somewhere else if you can find lower prices. Problem solved.

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[SupraMario]

Price gouging generally refers to items necessary for basic survival. Ie, food and clothing after hurricanes in Florida. Ammo doesn't fit this description.

Some people would argue that point. I won't, but to say it generally refers to...is not true. You can price gouge toliet paper...

Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock...

Supply shock....

Stores buying up goods from retailer x and selling on for a profit is wrong but that's not price gouging, IMO.

Buy definition it isn't unless there is a sudden fall in supply or something that creates a spike in demand. See above definition.

I believe most companies if aware of that activity will terminate that shop as a vendor of their product. I haven't heard of that happening on any kind of scale capable of impacting the entire national supply of ammo.

That would be because it's harder to catch a small shop than a national retail chain...
I.E why wally world and Academy sports are still pricing their ammo at pre-panic prices.

Demand is crazy high right now and prices should rise. If they rise too high then people, like you, will refuse to buy and will move on to another store with more reasonable pricing. This mechanism is what makes a free market economy free.

Should rise is fine, but I'm not going to pay for it. If others want to fine, but saying their isn't price gouging going on and that it's leftist dribble is silly.

There's no natural disaster threatening your well being which ammo will solve so prices raising are just simply a reaction to extreme demand. No foul play there.

There doesn't need to be...see again...price gouging.

There is foul play when a small shop owner buys out a local store because he knows the stock boy in the back....it happens a lot right now.

Don't like the high prices? Buy somewhere else if you can find lower prices. Problem solved.

I have, but that wasn't the point of this discussion, it was that shops are price gouging goods. Period.

I'm fine with that, but all it does it prolong this ammo shortage.

 

[jetjock]

...much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. ....

That's your problem right there. Like he said, leftist nonsense. The other thing I'll say is this should be a wake up call like the last time was for me. Why I keep a minimum of five cases in stock for each caliber. If you're looking for 5.56 or 9mm I'll be happy to sell you some at unfair and unreasonable prices...

 

[SupraMario]

That's your problem right there. Like he said, leftist nonsense. The other thing I'll say is this should be a wake up call like the last time was for me. Why I keep a minimum of five cases in stock for each caliber. If you're looking for 5.56 or 9mm I'll be happy to sell you some at unfair and unreasonable prices...

That's not from me....that's the definition of price gouging....I didn't make it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/price+gouging

Noun 1. price gouging - pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available

Wanna argue with the dictionary? Because that's what you just did.

Again, it's not leftist nonsense...get your head out of the sand. I'm just as much against bullshit arguments but there comes a time when people need to stop using it as an excuse to dismiss facts....I normally would be in agreement with you and mike but stop putting your head into the sand because it doesn't magically fit your definition.

The other thing I'll say is this should be a wake up call like the last time was for me. Why I keep a minimum of five cases in stock for each caliber. If you're looking for 5.56 or 9mm I'll be happy to sell you some at unfair and unreasonable prices...

Enjoy your stock, read through this entire thread and understand that I am fine waiting it out.

 

[jetjock]

Lmao. Wkipedia? Really? And note the dictionary entry doesn't match your interpretation. You nor anyone else has any right to decide what is a "reasonable" or "fair" price for anything. It is what the market will bear. Talk about head in the sand...

 

[Supracentral]

That's not from me....that's the definition of price gouging....I didn't make it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/price+gouging

Noun 1. price gouging - pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available

Wanna argue with the dictionary? Because that's what you just did.

A crowd sourced dictionary and crows sourced encyclopedia aren't even worth arguing with. The belief that truth comes from consensus, rather than fact, is one of the main reasons why our society is so fucked at this point.

However I will cede that this is the definition of price gouging, which, if this were semantic argument, would matter. However, in this case the defintion isn't the point of contention, it's the entire concept, which is leftist nonsense. I'm sure you'll find the concept of "social justice" well defined as well. It's also leftist bullshit.

I'm fine with that, but all it does it prolong this ammo shortage.

And that statement? Please explain to me how an increased price lengthens the shortage? Increased prices shorten shortage periods because they discourage panic buying and purchasing to hoard. I'm happy with the ammo I currently have. I have a stockpile to last through any foreseeable outcome, plus enough to go shoot when I want to keep my skills honed. If I find any ammunition that is priced artifically low, the only reason I'm going to buy it is to sell it to people who didn't plan ahead and see this coming when our dear leader was elected...

Those elevated prices are the only thing that stop me, jetjock, and other people with disposable income from buying up everything out there. Be glad that "gouging" exists, or there wouldn't be a single round available for you to pay an "unfair" price for...

 

[SupraMario]

Lmao. Wkipedia? Really? And note the dictionary entry doesn't match your interpretation.

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=price gouging

S: (n) price gouging (pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available)

How about princeton?

No? Not reputable enough for you?

You nor anyone else has any right to decide what is a "reasonable" or fair" price for anything.

And yes I do, it's called deciding with my money...I just decided your prices are unfair and bought my ammo elsewhere...

A crowd sourced dictionary and crows sourced encyclopedia aren't even worth arguing with. The belief that truth comes from consensus, rather than fact, is one of the main reasons why our society is so fucked at this point.

See above...a lot of dictionaries disagree with you....

However I will cede that this is the definition of price gouging, which, if this were semantic argument, would matter. However, in this case the defintion isn't the point of contention, it's the entire concept, which is leftist nonsense. I'm sure you'll find the concept of "social justice" well defined as well. It's also leftist bullshit.

I'm talking about the definition of price gouging here. Period. Nothing more nothing less. The fact is it is what is happening right now...by definition smaller under the radar shops are price gouging on their prices. Plain and simple. No leftist BS about it.

And that statement? Please explain to me how an increased price lengthens the shortage? Increased prices shorten shortage periods because they discourage panic buying and purchasing to hoard.

This could be applied but it also can be seen the other way, until those that are increasing the prices run out of money they will continue to raise prices and hoard their stocks. Yes, the market will come back down, but not until this condition has been meet.

I'm happy with the ammo I currently have. I have a stockpile to last through any foreseeable outcome, plus enough to go shoot when I want to keep my skills honed.

As do I, Minus the .22lr lol...

If I find any ammunition that is priced artifically low, the only reason I'm going to buy it is to sell it to people who didn't plan ahead and see this coming when our dear leader was elected...

Thus continuing the cycle for a bit more longer...

Those elevated prices are the only thing that stop me, jetjock, and other people with disposable income from buying up everything out there. Be glad that "gouging" exists, or there wouldn't be a single round available for you to pay an "unfair" price for...

I'm in that group you speak of also...so don't think just because you are older making money and the younger crew out there is broke....

 

[91Supra313]

Wow, this went from what stores have ammo and prices, to jumping down each others throats about the definition of a word......


JJ, I have a friend here that is in need of some .50 cal ammo, but he feels he isn't being ass raped enough. He was wondering if you could put on a sandpaper condom and stick it to him for a ton of cash that he is desperately trying to throw away. lol.

For the people that couldn't sense the sarcasm in that.....it was a joke.

 

[jetjock]

Sorry, don't have any .50. The crap hole state I live in doesn't allow us to have the launcher for that. Besides, your friend was already getting raped at pre-panic prices. As for Mario it's pretty clear which way he leans. I'm surprised he's not demanding those of us who have the stuff give up some to be distributed free to those who don't.

 

[SupraMario]

Sorry, don't have any .50. The crap hole state I live in doesn't allow us to have the launcher for that. Besides, your friend was already getting raped at pre-panic prices. As for Mario it's pretty clear which way he leans. I'm surprised he's not demanding those of us who have the stuff give up some to be distributed free to those who don't.

ROFL....really? So guessing you couldn't argue with the dictionary so you turn to trying to call me a left leaning socialist?

ROFL

Do you even understand where my avatar comes from?

 

[A. Jay]

And yes I do, it's called deciding with my money...I just decided your prices are unfair and bought my ammo elsewhere...

Then what is the problem?

And are you suggesting a price ceiling? As Supracentral said, that'll make the supply of ammo nonexistent.

 

[SupraMario]

Then what is the problem?

And are you suggesting a price ceiling? As Supracentral said, that'll make the supply of ammo nonexistent.

...Go back and reread the thread, my entire argument here has been that Mike and Jet have said that price gouging is a bullshit liberal term...I have proven them wrong that it isn't it's a proper term and price gouging is happening. I have not said anything against it. PERIOD. In fact I'm all for it, because when the people who have spent their CC limits on buying over priced ammo they will realize they couldn't afford it soon and have to sell it for less because the market will soon be flooded with Ammo....at least this is my prediction.

 

[suprarx7nut]

It seems as though you have some misguided issues with the situation. The activity regarding a special deal with competing stores buying and selling goods through back door deals in order to increase prices and lower supply is, I believe, in violation of anti-trust laws. That act is anger-invoking and in most cases illegal.

Many of us reading your posts are reading your comments as indication that you hate prices driven by unusually high demand. I think you're actually upset about the anti trust violations and not the price increases happening nation wide due to unsurpassed demand.

You give the impression at times that you think stores should keep prices low even with soaring demand in order to be "fair" to consumers. That thought is quite leftist and lends itself away from free markets and more towards socialism.

Not saying whats right or wrong just trying to clear up why you're being perceived the way you are. Just an FYI...

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[jetjock]

Meh, I really don't care what his kind thinks. The bottom line is we're flush, he's not, and his anger about it is misdirected towards those not responsible instead of himself.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Well back on topic my favorite range had a ton of ammo in stock. Nearly every variety available for range use, only a few less for retail sale.

Also had plenty of ars and mags for sale. Perhaps we're finally on the tail end of this mad rush?

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[SupraMario]

It seems as though you have some misguided issues with the situation. The activity regarding a special deal with competing stores buying and selling goods through back door deals in order to increase prices and lower supply is, I believe, in violation of anti-trust laws. That act is anger-invoking and in most cases illegal.

Misguided? I've laid out what is happening. I've proven mike and Jet that they were wrong, yet I'm some how a leftist...

Many of us reading your posts are reading your comments as indication that you hate prices driven by unusually high demand.

I'm upset that fellow gun owners are panicky. Ammo isn't going to get banned....I can understand the craze for ARs but Ammo? Really? The problem is gun owners are the ones who have created this shortage.

I think you're actually upset about the anti trust violations and not the price increases happening nation wide due to unsurpassed demand.

And like I've said before, it's really hard to catch the B&M that knows one of the managers at wally world to sell him the stock before it's on the shelves. Anti-Trust or not it's happening...

You give the impression at times that you think stores should keep prices low even with soaring demand in order to be "fair" to consumers. That thought is quite leftist and lends itself away from free markets and more towards socialism.

Please show me where I have said this...Impressions are nothing without action. I have even stated I'm fine with stores selling it at super high prices, all that means is there is going to be a surplus soon when all this is over and flood the market with cheap ammo.

Not saying whats right or wrong just trying to clear up why you're being perceived the way you are. Just an FYI...

I understand, I'm just a little perplexed at being called a leftist, when I called out the bullshit. Denouncing a fact because it doesn't fit your agenda is not the proper way to learn nor is it a good way to keep an open mind. I used to do this, hell you can read through all my old post. I would stick my fingers in my ear a lot of the time, because it went against what I thought I knew. Open discussion and learning requires listening and understanding all points, even those that don't fit what you think is correct.

Meh, I really don't care what his kind thinks. The bottom line is we're flush, he's not, and his anger about it is misdirected towards those not responsible instead of himself.

Bottom line is I have plenty of ammo (sans .22lr)...I also have presses and dies for just about everything, available to me, and the company I work for has a ton of gun owners who we all share our brass together. I'm not hurting for ammo at all...I'm annoyed that you won't acknowledge you were wrong...I figured you and Mike would be two people to be a bit more open minded than this....

 

[Supracentral]

Misguided? I've laid out what is happening. I've proven mike and Jet that they were wrong, yet I'm some how a leftist...

You haven't proved anything except an abject lack of understanding of free market economics. You've got a big problem with inflated prices due to demand that far outstrips supply. One could infer that you seem to think that somehow, lower prices would decrease demand or somehow increase supply. I'm not sure how you want to achieve that questionable goal. In the past you've seemed more than willing to use the force of law to achieve "fairness", not sure if that's where you're trying to go, or if you're actually trying to go anywhere.

I'm upset that fellow gun owners are panicky. Ammo isn't going to get banned....I can understand the craze for ARs but Ammo? Really? The problem is gun owners are the ones who have created this shortage.

Indeed they have. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how you think lower prices, be it forced or voluntary, helps that situation.

Please show me where I have said this...Impressions are nothing without action. I have even stated I'm fine with stores selling it at super high prices, all that means is there is going to be a surplus soon when all this is over and flood the market with cheap ammo.

So you're just bitching to hear yourself bitch... Ok.

Moving on...

I understand, I'm just a little perplexed at being called a leftist

The concept of "price gouging" is anti-capitalist leftist bullshit. It's a derogatory term for free market dynamics used mainly by those who want to use the force of law to interfere with those dynamics. Every time I've seen well meaning, but horribly misguided people use that force, the effect has been nothing but negative. Last time there was a "rumor" of a gas shortage here, my idiotic governor kicked in the anti-gouging rules, which prevented the market from reacting to the increased demand, and supply ran out in a day...

I figured you and Mike would be two people to be a bit more open minded than this....

When I'm wrong, I'll admit it. In this case, I'm not. You're using the terms of liberal politicians, socialists... That's all. The definition of the words was never in doubt. The thoughts that lead to the use of them is the issue. If that's too complex a concept for you, just go back to raging against the machine.

 

[SupraMario]

You haven't proved anything except an abject lack of understanding of free market economics. You've got a big problem with inflated prices due to demand that far outstrips supply. One could infer that you seem to think that somehow, lower prices would decrease demand or somehow increase supply. I'm not sure how you want to achieve that questionable goal. In the past you've seemed more than willing to use the force of law to achieve "fairness", not sure if that's where you're trying to go, or if you're actually trying to go anywhere.

Only someone who disagrees with the term of price gouging. I know exactly how free market economics work. I've got no problem with inflated prices, I've already told you I don't. You keep injecting that I do when there is no proof of it. In the past, is exactly that...in the past. I've even stated this.

Indeed they have. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how you think lower prices, be it forced or voluntary, helps that situation.

Again, please point to were I've said that...

So you're just bitching to hear yourself bitch... Ok.

Moving on...

??? No, I'm annoyed that you can't grasp the idea of price gouging....stop walking around it. It's not some leftist term...

The concept of "price gouging" is anti-capitalist leftist bullshit. It's a derogatory term for free market dynamics used mainly by those who want to use the force of law to interfere with those dynamics. Every time I've seen well meaning, but horribly misguided people use that force, the effect has been nothing but negative. Last time there was a "rumor" of a gas shortage here, my idiotic governor kicked in the anti-gouging rules, which prevented the market from reacting to the increased demand, and supply ran out in a day...

No it is not, it's exactly that, a term to describe something that happens in a free market. Price gouging happens period. It's just the term for stores raising prices to extreme levels in times of market shock. Nothing more nothing less...Stop dragging Force and all other libertarian Ideas into it, as they have nothing to do with it. If someone wants to use it to mean force...let them, but they would be using it incorrectly.

When I'm wrong, I'll admit it. In this case, I'm not. You're using the terms of liberal politicians, socialists... That's all. The definition of the words was never in doubt. The thoughts that lead to the use of them is the issue. If that's too complex a concept for you, just go back to raging against the machine.

No you are wrong, you have blatantly shown that you think the term is only used via liberal politicians and socialist when it isn't so. Even the definition was in doubt with you and Jet. Both of you stated it's just a bullshit term used....anything can be turned into a term repeated over and over by a certain party, it doesn't make it less true when used in the correct context.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Mario: at what point is the price of CCI mini mags considered price gouging? Where is the line where it goes from normal price increase due to inflated demand to "price gouging"?

For me, and this is just me, I associate the term with the point at which someone thinks the price increase is unfair and that something should be done to make that price illegal.

:dunno:

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[SupraMario]

Mario: at what point is the price of CCI mini mags considered price gouging? Where is the line where it goes from normal price increase due to inflated demand to "price gouging"?

For me, and this is just me, I associate the term with the point at which someone thinks the price increase is unfair and that something should be done to make that price illegal.

:dunno:

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

See the issue is, I'm using it as a term, not as a word to describe the government stepping in. Price gouging is just a term to describe the a massive increase in price to cash in on hysteria. Do I care that it happens? Well sure, because it means I've gotta wait it out, use my stock piled ammo or pay the price increase or shop around (which I do more than I normally do). Do I want the government to step in and do something about it? Fuck no. I know it's part of free market at play. Hell I consider brand named T-Shirts price gouging because it takes advantaged of weak minded people to buy the latest fad. Do I want that to stop? Again...Fuck No.

I used the term in the appropriate setting and I've been called out as some slime ball liberal...when that's so far from the truth it isn't funny. The liberal crowd hates me...