Help with bass.

[ImpulseDrive]

Hi guys! I tried searching for some audio questions but the section itself is so small that I browsed through it in like 3 minutes lol.

My question is how can I get more bass into my STOCK supra system? I have a 1991 supra so I have the stock 6 speaker set up. I changed the front speakers to pioneers but the bass quality is still sub par. The head unit is still factory Toyota cd/cassette/radio and would like to keep it for its "nostalgic" look for the foreseen future.

I turned the bass setting on the head unit to the max and its still under performs. I drive a 2007 ford ranger at work and the factory bass and sound DESTROYS my supra by a huge margin. The ford truck has a factory radio and no mods done to it.

So after that I lead to believe that it was an old car and the system is pale compared to newer cars but my nephews 89 supra system sounds better than mine and the 89 has the smaller speaker set up BUT he has an aftermarket head unit so I'm not sure if that alone is giving more power to the speakers. He still uses Toyota factory speakers by the way.

I don't want to make speaker boxes for the trunk or cutting holes anywhere for sub woofers or anything drastic like that. I would just like a way to enhance my stock sound system to have a better performance. In no ways I mean earthquake kind of music but that I can feel the bass more than it is now which feels like a spring breeze on the skin when it vibrates.

My first thought was to replace the pioneers I put on the door panels and put 6.5 sub woofers but I'm not sure how that would turn out. Any help, tips, advice or insight would greatly be appreciated!

 

[Rennat]

have you replaced ALL the speakers? and you could wire the OEM headunit to an amp and then power the speakers from the amp that way you'll have more power then you'll ever need... but why keep the oem head unit? its fugly...

 

[ImpulseDrive]

I only changed the front door panel speakers. The four in the back I haven't touched because they are oval and kind of rare to find those speakers.

I haven't thought of re-wiring the car for another amp since I'm not too keen on splicing wires of the sorts (if its involved). I have the factory amp underneath the passenger seat. Can I actually put an after market amp there with its existing wires?

As to why I have the factory radio, its not ugly at all (in my opinion, the early 87-88 ones with silver buttons I agree were ugly though lol) But basically the points are

1- I live in NY and people would rob your car for a hot radio over a full racing exhaust. Even though I club my car twice and have two alarms one with cut off, I still don't want a broken window or lock because of my radio.

2- The day I do change my head unit, I want to put a double din gps nav unit which completely contradicts my first reason. But thieves here would steal ANYTHING. They would break someones car to steal a jvc if it looks pretty enough to sell forward.

3- I'd rather use any "supra fund" money on performance parts/ maintenances over a head unit I would probably use temporarily until the navs drop further in price as they continue to pummel downwards. Any upgrades to the stock system as is now, like changing speakers or amps at the factory locations without cutting anything on the car is my "direction" since I can use those same amps/speakers whenever I do buy the double din system. IF that route is even possible, which is why I made this thread to verify lol

 

[speed]

You need some bigger speakers.. .simple as that

you can't get any sort of decent bass or even midbass out of anything smaller than 6.5". You have a couple options...

1) find 91+ doors that are meant for 6.5" speakers
2) make your own adapters to fit 6.5"s in the doors
3) keep the speakers you have now, and add in an external amp and subwoofer

You can use an external amp setup with the stock HU.. it'll just clip and sound like poo at higher volumes. Check out this thread, he did it:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62509

 

[GrimJack]

Something like this would work: http://www.infinitysystems.com/car/...SL&ser=BSL&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

You've got the 6.5" up front, that's a start. It's NEVER going to be great for bass. The stock head unit simply doesn't have enough power. It's like trying to run a 10 second quarter mile and leaving your engine stock. You simply can't do it.

Bass takes power. Simple as that.

That being said, there are a few things that you can do, if you're willing to put in the time.

The '91 6.5" speaker boxes are open in the rear. This loses a lot of the bass response, as the backwave is free to come around to the front of the speaker cone. This results in cancellation which is simply wasted energy.

The solution is to build an enclosure for your speakers. I'm working on one myself, which will also retrofit into the '86.5-'90 doors.

 

[ImpulseDrive]

Thanks for the quick replies guys! As for your steps speed I guess I'm almost done lol.

1) my supra is 1991 so I have the door panels
2) I have the speaker pods for the 6.5 speakers since its 91 and I changed the factory speakers to pioneers in hopes to make the quality better. No dice.
3) The car came with a factory external amp already, its located underneath the passenger side seat. I can see from the thread that you posted that the guy did have a similar installation idea. I'm reading his thread now to see if theres an easy way to install another amp where the factory amp is located. Like just replace it. I doubt its as easy as plugging in new speakers but I can hope.

And grim that box looks awesome, but its beyond my electrical skills and I don't think it would fit underneath the seat. It would fit in the trunk but depending on its height, I might not be able to fir my targa which I would prefer.

 

[super.secret.supra.club]

make sure that after you've put the speakers in that the "box" is sealed. it helps to amplify the bass.

ed.d.

 

[ImpulseDrive]

By the "box" you guys are referring to the speaker pods correct? If so yeah they are sealed in good.

 

[GrimJack]

You can get those subs to fit in your spare tire well. Spare tires are overrated anyway - when was the last time you had a flat? When was the last time your used your stereo? Get an AAA membership and ditch the spare.

 

[thelonerider]

No one mentioned that most OEM radios are "EQ'd" to reduce bass as you turn up the volume so that the very low power in the OEM radio doesn't go into distortion. A 6.5 is large enough to produce some bass, maybe not ground shaking, but enough to make your mirror buzz. I replaced the 4" full range speakers in the far rear of my '89 with some 4" long throw woofers and with my Pioneer head unit, these things could resonate some very LOW bass, not the pounding kind, but the vibrating kind... this is because of the box they are in and the tuned port these boxes have as well as the aftermarket head unit.
There are some fixes for OEM head unit equalization issue. Check out:
Rockford Fosgate 3SIXTY
JL Audio CleanSweep
JL Audio CleanSweep review

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

I have a pair of those '91 speaker pods, and they are definitely not sealed. They are open at the back, trying to use the door itself as an enclosure. Of course the door isn't anthing close to sealed, so there's a LOT of bass that just goes missing that way.

Get a proper enclosure for the speakers, and there will be an improvement.

However, the factory amp STILL doesn't have that much power to it. It's a bit cleaner than the regular head unit amp, but there's really not a lot of power there.

I said it before, it takes power to make bass. It just does. If you're not happy with it at its present stage, you're most likely going to need to add another amplifier, and possibly a subwoofer of some sort.

 

[Anth505]

It's simple. You will NEVER get good sounding bass, mids, or high's from a factory head unit no matter what you do. You can hook up the best amp ever built and it will still sound like shit.

You can get decent bass from 5.25-6.5 from the doors but the speakers MUST be in a sealed enclosure specifically designed for that speaker, or at least close. However you will not have enough power to drive them with a factory head unit and factory amp. You must at least upgrade the amp..yes you can swap out the old factory amp and put in a new one but like I said, it will still sound like shit.

If you want good sound...even half decent sound you have to replace the factory head unit. If done right, no factory wires have to be cut, no interior panels have to be modified and the factory head unit can be reinstalled quickly and easily like it had never been changed at all.

Entry level head units are available now for $100 and most have detachable faceplates. I would recommend one with a non-fading sub out if you plan to add a sub at some point. They start around $200 or so.

Getting good bass out of your car is a difficult thing to do, and it will cost you some money. There is no way around it. If you can do most if not all of the labour yourself you will save a bunch, but if you've never done it before have a reputable shop do the work.

 

[ImpulseDrive]

Thank you again for all the awesome advice. Point taken I won't get too much with my factory head unit, thats fair since I wouldn't want to upgrade that part of my car in the near future until the one I want drop to a more comfortable price which it is slowly but surely.

The other list of amps and things really caught my interest since I can add those for now and still use them when the HU is changed. Kind of like how I got my mods on my supra, I have a lot of performance mods but still running a stock engine. When I do rebuild the engine all the downpipes, exhaust, cats, struts etc wouldn't go to waste.

As for the pods being sealed, I understood when asked "are they sealed" was if when I did the install did I screw in the new speakers so that the speaker itself on the pod is sealed correctly. I didn't think of BEHIND the speaker where the door is, I actually never paid attention to that part which by what dan says makes sense since I don't remember the pod having a back wall or sorts when I put my new speakers in. If I wanted to seal the factory pods which indeed would help, what would be the best route in doing so? Duct taping some layers of foam behind the pod opening?

As for ant, yes I really wouldn't want to cut any harasses on my supra at all. I ran brand new wires for my JDM folding mirrors since i was so against the idea of cutting my OEM mirror harasses. If theres a harasses A to harass B adapter or something out there then I would definitely jump onto that.

Thanks again for the insight! So foaming the back of the pods good or not? I don't remember where but I think I heard somewhere that foam sucks up sound good.

Edit- I've gotten two flats in the year 2007, both on the rear wheels, once the right, once the left lol. Lucky for me both tires were repairable since I pulled over immediately. I wouldn't take the chance on putting an amp in my spare tire space but its a sweet idea since theres no other spot in the car.

 

[Anth505]

I would build door pods out of fiberglass. You could use foam to get the shape and fiberglass over it, but the best way is to build a frame out of wood and fiberglass around it.

Now that I think about it, I remember seeing plastic pods for specific sized speakers somewhere a long time ago. Wal mart might have them. I would still want to strengthen them though and maybe use some fiberfill inside.

Dynamat works wonders for bass response if used correctly. It blocks out road noise and vibration which is generally in the lower frequencies. It lets the lower frequencies of the speaker come across better because it is not as drowned out.

I would still suggest spending a little on a head unit right now. It might not be exactly what you want, but it will give you much better sound and easier installation of an amp if you choose. When the time comes to upgrade, install that deck in your second vehicle if you have one, or sell it.

I personally wouldn't bother doing anything with the factory head unit. It's just not worth all the effort for such a marginal sound increase. Yes it will be louder but it will sound like crap.

 

[pbasil1]

My solution.

http://www.carforum.net/showthread.php?t=1699

I can build you some adapters to put 6.5" speakers in the doors for a small price, and i would really recommend going with a decent component speaker setup with a small amp to power them. For those who have stated that you can get any good bass out of a 6.5" soeaker, you are all wrong.

The enclosure makes about 70% of the sound. Not the driver. So if you have a crappy enclosure, in this case a non sealed or tuned car door, then mid and bass response absolutely sux! The ultimate setup is to build an independent speaker pod for the driver, but this takes much skill to make it look half decent, and it takes up leg room. So the next best thing is to seal the doors as best as possible. Dynamat or some other good sound deadening should be used on the doors. Both inside and out and if done right, you can get some decent bass from the stock speakers.

 

[thelonerider]

I would build door pods out of fiberglass. You could use foam to get the shape and fiberglass over it, but the best way is to build a frame out of wood and fiberglass around it.

Now that I think about it, I remember seeing plastic pods for specific sized speakers somewhere a long time ago. Wal mart might have them. I would still want to strengthen them though and maybe use some fiberfill inside.

Dynamat works wonders for bass response if used correctly. It blocks out road noise and vibration which is generally in the lower frequencies. It lets the lower frequencies of the speaker come across better because it is not as drowned out.

I would still suggest spending a little on a head unit right now. It might not be exactly what you want, but it will give you much better sound and easier installation of an amp if you choose. When the time comes to upgrade, install that deck in your second vehicle if you have one, or sell it.

I personally wouldn't bother doing anything with the factory head unit. It's just not worth all the effort for such a marginal sound increase. Yes it will be louder but it will sound like crap.

Agreed... When I just changed the OEM radio for my Pioneer, it was amazing how much more range the speakers had... the whole system sounded better... That is where I would go next as you already have upgraded the front 6.5s.
As for building or purchasing pods, they still need to be big enough to allow for some type of chamber behind the speaker... which usually means custom work and fiberglass.

 

[IJ.]

A nice pair of "Bass"
(she might be able to "help")

 

[ImpulseDrive]

^^ makes me wanna go fishing :-D.

Basil the Dynamat thing looks awesome and easy to do. I checked prices and I guess its around 50 bucks for enough for the 2 front doors. You did a great write up and honestly the final version looks awesome and you have talent. Still I'm not the type to want to drill holes or anything into my door and stuff. I'm not TOO much of an audiophile, just getting a better bass quality would be enough for my listening pleasure and the Dynamat , small amp and new HU would probably be all I need since my front 6.5 are arleady upgraded to pioneers.

I have a small amp around the house, a kenwood. (I hope I find it lol) Small to fit under the passenger seat like the stock one but its a little bigger. Is there a way to just remove my factory amp, get some sort of "harness to wires" application so I wouldn't have to cut my stock wiring.

Where I'm getting at is like a harness I can clip onto the existing open one and on the other end have free wires in which I can use to install the kenwood. Does such a thing exist?

In conclusion though from what I gather, the route I'll take is a new HU, Dynamat the panels and put a small amp, nothing drastic under the passenger seat where the factory amp is located. I wouldn't have to get big boxes or have something take up my targa, cargo space in the trunk.

Only trouble for me then would be the wiring of the amp through the factory wires. I will leave the back four speakers stock since finding quality speakers that are a direct fit was almost impossible for me to find.

 

[Anth505]

If you are going to use a new head unit and external amp you won't be using the factory wiring. Your power wires will all be new. The only thing you could use would be the speaker leads. I would recommend running new speaker wire instead. IIRC you said you have the 6 speaker setup in your car. You will have to be a bit creative with how you wire things in order to get tham all working. If you have a 2 channel amp you can run 2 speakers off the amp and 4 speakers off the deck. With a 4 channel amp, only run 2 of the speakers off the deck. Either of these setups will still give you some controllability of volume over each pair of speakers. Does your amp have an internal crossover?

Amping all 6 channels would be ideal for this situation, but only if it has crossovers for each channel. There are a few other options you can do but I'll need to know specific equipment you intend on using.

Does the factory system have a built in sub?