Fuel Rail question

[Grandavi]

Wondering if I need to upgrade my fuel rail.. and if so.. do they exist? (I know Albert started a group buy on one, but I don't know if that will be built...)

7MGTE
1000 cc ID injectors
SP6265 Turbo
3" exhaust
Stock head and intake
Denso MKIV fuel pump
AEM AFPR (Drift motion kit)
CXRacing 7MGTE Intercooler

(should be enough info I think)

Just thinking about this because its easier to do the upgrade now as I just had the valve covers/intake plenum powder coated (looks very nice) and don't have the stand alone wired in yet. Injectors are installed, but it would be quick to do the fuel rail at this point as opposed to later on. If I cant find one, we will just watch the fuel pressure on the dyno to make sure it doesn't fall off at top end.

 

[AbsoluteSpeed]

No need to replace it. However, people do install a return line on the fuel rail.
I imagine it helps keep even fuel pressure across all injectors.

 

[Grandavi]

That would make sense, although I wont be maxing the flow on the 1000 cc's at the power level I will end up at. Im thinking that I may end up somewhere between 420 and 500 rwhp with this setup (that's not pushing it to extremes). I could run at 22 psi on this turbo, but think I want to limit it to about 18 because most of my driving will be on city highways/streets and 500 rwhp+ is kinda insane for that usage... lol. (although... power is kind of an addiction... you always want more)

I may just wait until we hit the dyno and see how everything pans out. Im still going to be running batch fire (not sequential) on my 7M if that make any difference... (cant see how it would in my mind)

 

[din904]

you should be fine I made 493 whp at 20.5 psi on a dyno dynamics running a precision 6265 dbb turbo on stock fuel lines and rail for 3 1/2 yrs. The problem you may encounter is the fuel pump I've seen two separate supras start running out of fuel at low 400 whp using the MKIV denso pump. I would run the walbro 400 you will have plenty of room to grow. If you plan on making much more than 500 hp you should make your fuel rail a dual feed setup. Also for traction the toyo r888 is an awesome tire it holds 516 rwtq in first gear 95% of the time night and day compared to any street tire and yes you will want more power! Good luck with your build.

 

[Grandavi]

There are 2 denso pumps, 280 lph and 340 lph I believe. I'm not sure which I have.

I think I will just watch the fuel pressure and possibly add the fuel return as well. I'll have to look at those tires. Going to try to do a balance between good traction and drivability. We may be getting another race track near here so I may be able to starting doing quarter miles.

 

[supraguy@aol]

My power goals are pretty much exactly the same as yours, Grandavi.
I stuck with stock hard lines and rail as well, and am using the Aeromotive Stealth pump.
Problem is, it will be at least 6 months till this thing ever sees a dyno.

 

[7M4EVR]

Ive got no experience with higher flowing fuel rails, but i couldnt imagine needing anything more than the stocker. That thing has an inside diameter thats like the size of a nickle lol. If you were going to use E85 or something then i think those guys do somethng special to the rail and lines.

 

[Grandavi]

I may be overthinking this. I like to build a bit over what I need to prevent going back to upgrade an upgrade. That is, as long as it won't cause a problem.
The fuel rail was just because I have the intake off and new injectors in, so it's relatively cheap to upgrade it now. However, I can't find one yet... Lol

 

[1988ma70supra]

SARD made one for the MK3 but they are hard to find. I know LIPP also has one as well

http://www.suprasport.com/LIPP-Hi-Flow-Fuel-Rail_p_313.html

 

[gats]

I run an OEM rail which I drilled and tapped for a -8 feed and has a -6 return. Car makes over 800 RWHP through the GM auto. In essence, the OEM rail will do fine. Not sure the limits of it yet but I'm sure I will find out eventually.

Duane

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?86531-Lipp-Fuel-Rail-Problem

Standard modified rail is fine

 

[Grandavi]

I was going to get the Lipp one (bling).. but bantered the idea back and forth with the shop and I'm going to stay with the stock one for now and deal with it later if it becomes an issue. I doubt I will be running above 500 hp at the wheels with my setup.

 

[supraguy@aol]

Or...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-Supr...Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a28a61b95&vxp=mtr

 

[7M4EVR]

I was going to get the Lipp one (bling).. but bantered the idea back and forth with the shop and I'm going to stay with the stock one for now and deal with it later if it becomes an issue. I doubt I will be running above 500 hp at the wheels with my setup.

Well for what it's worth, and I'm sure you already know this, I'm far from a mechanic and had my rail off and put back on in what I would guess to be about an hour when I was chasing my fuel delivery issue. Really not something I would worry about.

Also, I can't remember, but I am curious. Did you ever get yours dynoed when you had the upgraded CT before you went T4 and standalone? I always like seeing the before and after numbers on a $7000 investment lol

 

[Grandavi]

I had the car dyno'd with the BPU's. (that was with the 57 Trim, Lexus AFM, Raptor Racing DDP and HKS Catback exhaust upgrade). There were issues with the AFR's getting far too rich and the turbo was smoking. When I went to a CT26 - 60-1, I also upgraded the intercooler. That is when the performance went downhill a bit because I was hitting fuel cut and it was terribly hard to control the boost. Had pressure loss but did not do a final diagnosis as to where it was occurring. I was so disappointed at the feel of the car and the unpredictability of the boost with that setup I went to the T4 upgrade. Its a bit more than 7000 though. The HKS Longrunner manifold, 3" DP, Tial 44mm Wastegate and SP6265 turbo cost me 1600.00 with an additional 400.00 to clean up the manifold and ceramic coat it. (had broken bolts in the turbo mount and was fairly beat up... is like new now) Also cost my 100.00 for a spacer that got lost in the shipping. Then I just got the valve covers/intake (upper and lower) powder coated same color as the car ... looks wicked.. lol. Of course.. then you throw on a Stage 2 rebuild at Jack Transmission for my R154 because I was tired of not being able to shift smoothly in 1st and 2nd... and 1000 cc ID Injectors... and shop time... then the HKS Fcon Vpro 3.3, harness, patch harness, 90 ECU, installation, tuning, final dyno... and.. well... lets just say.. its a lot more than 7000... hehe

 

[IndigoMKII]

I know how you feel Grandavi, I'm sitting here looking at my t4 setup and can never get a final number on things because everytime I try I always leave out a few items.

I'm on the fence about getting my R154 rebuilt or go TH350. The transmission has had a 2nd gear issue since I bought it, it likes to make a crunching sound if you try to hit 2nd hard or with the rpms high.

 

[jdmfreak]

That's how my whole project has been going lol first price list put me at just over 6000 for parts now my list is over 13000 just
For parts (been getting deals here and there so not quite what I'll end up paying but I totally know what you mean the little stuff hits you hard

 

[Grandavi]

Jack puts upgraded forks in and modified synchro mesh for smoother shifts. Going to be interesting to see how it feels.

 

[7M4EVR]

I priced everything because I was very serious about selling all my brand new BPU stuff right after I finished my rebuild, letting the car sit another year and going T4. All because I rode in some 400hp cars and wasn't very impressed. But then after some break in, feeling the car at wastegate psi, untuned, and not even full throttle or rapping out RPM's made me change my mind lol. Something about the sound and pull of a 7M... I'm very excited for my dyno tune this winter and getting everything ready for spring now. Although, I know eventually the inevitable T4 setup is coming...When i priced everything I was doing all the work myself aside from a tune.

No matter what your plans are for your car are, the guys that tell you "whatever you have planned to spend, double it" are exactly right and no matter whether you want to believe it or not, its reality and valueable information. Had I known back then what i know now, I would have taken the supraguy@aol approach and hoarded parts for years before I started building and when the time came to build no spec of 1987 dirt would remain untouched...but thats life I suppose! And it's never too late to start again! Ten years from now I will have one of the baddest 7M MK3's around and nobody can stop me!..Muahahahha! (End Rant)