500whp Reliable for Under 5g's?

[Gritz]

My dad, brother and I were discussing this topic the other night. My dad of course not really knowing the the import scene said" there is no way these engine will hold this much power for long, here today gone tomorrow." lol My brother owning a 88 turbo II 60-1, 3in exhaust, r-tech fuel..etc said " i know these motors are strong but you will have more than 5g's in the engine to make a reliable 500whp."
I think a 1jz can do it and 100% sure a 2jz can do it...

I'm only aiming for 400whp on my 260z 1jz swap which should be feasible and reliable.

Now i know there are a lot of variables but assuming you have a engine in healthy condition meaning good oil pressure and even compression 500whp should be doable and reliable for 5 grand..am i right?

I should add all the work is D.I.Y other than tunning i guess...

 

[Lienhop Photo]

500 is A lot. With a bigger turbo, injectors, exhaust, and maybe pistons and rods, you might be close to 500, but well over 5k. A turbo and the block will be almost that

 

[NashMan]

well i am not 1j fan


but can it be done and last long sure can can it be done for under 5000 yes it can as long as you are dong all the works your self


the only thing that cause motors to blow up is the motor is shit to begin with or poor tuning that si really all it is

 

[GrimJack]

Not for $5k.

Intake, exhaust, boost controller, intercooler, hardpipes, injectors, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump, fuel computer, and turbo will run you $3500 alone. You'll spend more than $1500 in worn out hoses, broken vacuum lines, ARP hardware, new clutch, and tires that will give you a chance in hell of making it stick to the ground. Looking back over what I've spent - you'll spend WAY more than that.

Your dad is right in a way - it costs a LOT more to make an import into a reliable 500 whp machine than it does to do the same with a domestic. Difference is, when you're done, you'll have a nicer car.

 

[Supracentral]

Fast
Reliable
Cheap

Pick two, and only two, the third you don't get.

Read this:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/sh...read.-((NWS-potential))&p=1265349#post1265349

 

[Gritz]

Great responses guys keep them coming. Who here is pushing around 500hp and for how long?

 

[NashMan]

i beg to differ there dave you can get parts pretty cheep now and if you buy used part and hunt on the buy sell you can get good deals


give me 5000 i can make 1j push 500 all day long pending on if the motor is pile of shit

the most exp stuff would be clutch and turbo

Not for $5k.

Intake, exhaust, boost controller, intercooler, hardpipes, injectors, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump, fuel computer, and turbo will run you $3500 alone. You'll spend more than $1500 in worn out hoses, broken vacuum lines, ARP hardware, new clutch, and tires that will give you a chance in hell of making it stick to the ground. Looking back over what I've spent - you'll spend WAY more than that.

Your dad is right in a way - it costs a LOT more to make an import into a reliable 500 whp machine than it does to do the same with a domestic. Difference is, when you're done, you'll have a nicer car.

 

[Poodles]

Depends what you're starting with as well. Hitting 5ooHP in a MKIV on a budget isn't too hard if it's in good shape (less worn out, so less money needed). MKIII with a 7M is a lot tougher.

Now 400HP is quite a bit easier, but the same goes for a domestic. 400 is minor mods on an LS1...

 

[tissimo]

Depends what the 5k is on. If performance parts only (like have a running car first) then very easy to get 500whp with 5k.

Walbro pump $120
Used MKIV 550s $200
SAFC $350
Favorite EBC $550
Driftmotion 67mm Turbo kit (I assume it bolts in, no custom stuff needed?) $1700
Drift Motion IC Kit $500
Your Favorite flavor clutch $700
$500 misc

pour gas in and crank the boost. 500whp.
Just a rough estimates..

 

[Jayhall]

I dont think your going to get reliable for under 5k.

 

[Evilempire1.3JZ-GTE]

The stock internals on the 1JZ are said to be reliable up to 800 crank horsepower race fuel high boost settings and perfect tune run here and there for racing, meets, dyno.
In an application for dailey driving with 17-19psi premium pump gas you can get about 5-600hp with no worries.

So yes your car can make it but you question is complex because the rest of the car besides the engine needs the supporting mods and upgrades.

With single turbo and supporting mods 440's or 550's safc BPUs you can get 400WHP easy you can almost get that with factory twins(depending on condition & tune).

500 is A lot. With a bigger turbo, injectors, exhaust, and maybe pistons and rods, you might be close to 500, but well over 5k. A turbo and the block will be almost that

B.S. A JZ isnt a 7M it makes up to 800hp factory internals 2jz been know to make even more.

I think reliable 400whp is doable for under 5000 if done by yourself at an expert level of mechanical eperiance.
However doing 500whp + will set you back 7-10,000 done the right way because you have to get multiplate clutches better brakes do a complete drivetrain upgrade along with fuel & standalone managment mods.
The good news though is you dont have to dig into the internals to much when using the more robust newer JZ series engines, but light internal/head work may help like port polish valve spring cam upgrades.
If you want more usable powerband performance like in the 7000-10000 rpm ranges.

 

[GrimJack]

Depends what the 5k is on. If performance parts only (like have a running car first) then very easy to get 500whp with 5k.

Walbro pump $120
Used MKIV 550s $200
SAFC $350
Favorite EBC $550
Driftmotion 67mm Turbo kit (I assume it bolts in, no custom stuff needed?) $1700
Drift Motion IC Kit $500
Your Favorite flavor clutch $700
$500 misc

pour gas in and crank the boost. 500whp.
Just a rough estimates..

You left out the intake, exhaust, and fuel pressure regulator. That's going to go over your $500 misc. fund.

And everyone damn well knows that there's no possibility of pulling this off without running into unexpected expenses - probably to the tune of another 50-100% on top of what you've listed here.

 

[whitemike]

You left out the intake, exhaust, and fuel pressure regulator. That's going to go over your $500 misc. fund.

And everyone damn well knows that there's no possibility of pulling this off without running into unexpected expenses - probably to the tune of another 50-100% on top of what you've listed here.

Unexpected expenses.. ugh. Should be my middle name. I ended up spending 5k I didn't even mean to.

-Mike

 

[supra0022]

Just to kinda give you a little insight, I already have about a grand into the head on my 1j and thats just the vavles and valve springs, and will be spending almost another 1200 for 264 duration cams. Then on the bottom end I have Clevite bearings, 250 there, complete engine gasket and seal kit, over 100 there and thats just the start. I haven't event put any of it together because I am looking for a machine shop to get all the machine work done. for example, block and head decking, honing the cylinders etc. The key word is reliable. Thats what is going to make it expensive. But I do agree, if done right its possible but I do believe that would be the minimum spent.

 

[tissimo]

You left out the intake, exhaust, and fuel pressure regulator. That's going to go over your $500 misc. fund.

And everyone damn well knows that there's no possibility of pulling this off without running into unexpected expenses - probably to the tune of another 50-100% on top of what you've listed here.

A $50 filter, $500 exhaust, and you do not need a FPR, the stock one works fine with that fuel system.

$500 misc is to cover 'unexpected expenses'. If you need another 2500 or 5k for 'unexpected expenses' you're a moron. :rofl:

 

[Gritz]

This topic is really loaded, because every person has got different goals for there car...For example some people are not a fan of the holset turbo because of the "on and off" switch power band; however for about $300-$400 a good used hx35 or hx40 will make the power and take 20psi all day long reliable...

 

[Supracentral]

Since a lot of people are too lazy to follow a link:

Determine what your goals are before you start buying parts. It's foolish to upgrade to 550's just to come back 3 months later and sell them for 1/2 what you paid for them because you now think you need 750's. On the other hand, if your goal is a 400 RWHP build, don't go out and buy 272 cams, it's a waste and it won't be worth the cost and driveablility penalties.

Make the car stop and turn before you make it go fast. There are few things more dangerous than a 600 RWHP car on 200 RWHP brakes and cheap tires.

Remember a car is a complete system and it's only as strong as the weakest link in the chain. Want a 600 HP car? You need a 600 HP engine setup, a 600 HP suspension, a 600 HP drivetrain, 600 HP brakes and 600 HP tires. Not to mention a 600 HP driver. Also, there comes a point with power goals where a full roll cage and racing harnesses aren't an option anymore -- they become a necessity.

Come up with a realistic budget of what it will cost to attain your goals. Multiply that amount by two. If you're good, you will be close to what you're going to spend in the end. Realistically it will probably be a lot more. Don't be surprised if it winds up being more than you ever thought possible.

Do it right, or don't bother doing it at all. Fast, cheap, reliable - you pick two, the other is a foregone conclusion. In other words, if it's fast & cheap, it won't be reliable. If it's fast & reliable, it won't be cheap.

Don't cut corners, but also don't finance your fun. Putting a big single turbo on a credit card is a fools errand. If you need to borrow to build it, you'll never be able to afford to keep it running.

If it is your only means of transportation, stop now and include a cheap daily driver (like an old Honda) as a part of your budget and buy that car before you modify this one.

Listen to people who have done it before. Read over the site. Learn from the people who have done it, and have facts to back their opinions and recommendations.

There are basically no mysteries left in the Supra. Just about anything you want to achieve has been done, and there are a set of steps to get there.

By following these suggestions, you'll make sure the weak link in the chain isn't the owner.

I've owned & managed a shop. I've been a professional racer & crew chief. I've built everything from ProStreet Domestics, to professional race cars, to heavily modded street Supras. That's about 27 years worth of experience modifying cars speaking, your mileage may vary, but I seriously doubt it.

 

[Gritz]

Just to kinda give you a little insight, I already have about a grand into the head on my 1j and thats just the vavles and valve springs, and will be spending almost another 1200 for 264 duration cams. Then on the bottom end I have Clevite bearings, 250 there, complete engine gasket and seal kit, over 100 there and thats just the start. I haven't event put any of it together because I am looking for a machine shop to get all the machine work done. for example, block and head decking, honing the cylinders etc. The key word is reliable. Thats what is going to make it expensive. But I do agree, if done right its possible but I do believe that would be the minimum spent.

I know it's not recommended, but can a 1j or 2j make 500hp without cams?

 

[Supracentral]

I know it's not recommended, but can a 1j or 2j make 500hp without cams?

Both motors are capable of 500 on the factory cams/heads/valves.

 

[Gritz]

My biggest point was it really depends on the condition of your engine...My brother point was" the jz engines are really old now, so they all need to be re-ring, or rebuilt." maybe so.