Wow! today sucked. What do I need to do a full rebuild?

2543arvin

Moving to Japan!!!
Nov 30, 2006
879
0
0
Jacksonville, NC
Erkenz said:
Ahhh... but forged internals make up for bad tuning. And maybe someday he's gonna want more power and not wanna pull the engine again...
you dont have to convince me, im currently doing a rebuild and i couldnt agree more, thats why im going with forged internals, but all i was saying is that if hes on a budget and only looking for 350hp then he shouldnt spend the extra money on forged pistons and rods.
 

jsnowman76

In need of another supra
Oct 17, 2006
289
0
0
Elk grove, CA
i dont want to have to pull it again so it is definetly something for me to consider. this is not my dd. so I have plenty of time to decide.
 

jsnowman76

In need of another supra
Oct 17, 2006
289
0
0
Elk grove, CA
updated list:

7m balanced and blueprinted
forged wiseco pistons .020 over
forged eagle h-beam rods w/ arp bolts
all new bearings
all new gaskets
2mm cometic mhg
arp head and main studs
new timing belt
7m head rebuilt and ported and polished
micro polished cams
all new oem hoses and vacuum lines
new ic pipes while im at it
possibly a ron r ffim ? idk yet...
BIC downpipe
new oil pump!
new radiator and cap
arp flywheel bolts
new freeze plugs
new oil pump driveshaft bearings

1jz is out of the question thanks to some good advice. I want the reliability of know what has been done to it.
I figure since the motor and tranny are out, I'll do it once and not worry about it again

time to start saving like mad.

thanks idealsupra and 2543arvin

anyone else wanna add to this?
 

kntmikado

Rage Your Dream...
Apr 2, 2005
116
0
0
East Troy, WI 53120
I've seen lots of posts regarding the engine internals and such, so I won't address that. I'm also not a GTE owner (NA is my thing), so I won't get into specifics of turbos other than to say that while the engine is out, it's an excellent time to get the CT-26 looked at/rebuilt/upgraded.

I tried to write the rest of this post in a conventional format, but I kept losing my train of thought, so I'll present it differently.

Here are some other things to consider doing while the engine is apart, since you don't want to take the engine apart again later to upgrade things that you could just upgrade now.

  • Replace/Upgrade your valve springs. A70 Supras are not new cars by any means, and valve springs do wear. If it's in your budget, you may want to consider an upgrade to something with better performance, or at least new versions of what you've already got.
  • Replace Valve Stem Seals - These are notorious for going bad on A70s, so a new set while the head is off is just common sense. You should probably be slapped if you put the head back on without replacing these. New valve stem seals should be made of Viton or Viton II.
  • Oversized Valves - While not critical for anything near your power goals, oversized valves will further increase the ability of your intake system to push air into the cylinder. As we all know, increased air is required for increased power, and a better-flowing head will get more out of your turbo.
  • NA Cams - There was a lot of controversy about this for a while, but as long as you're aiming for under 500HP, NA cams are cheap and a perfectly good alternative to new cams. The timing of valve events (most notably the opening/closing of the exhaust valve IIRC) is slightly different on the NA. This leads to increases in power for turbos that aren't shooting for the sky. You'll have to replace a couple other parts while you're at it, but the upgrade is definitely worth considering.
  • Lightweight/Adjustable Cam Gears - Less rotating mass, even if only slightly less, is still less work for the engine to do. Adjustability is also a good thing to have since you can tune the cams for even better power/torque.
  • Electric Fan - Replacing the belt-driven fan for an electric fan will lessen rotational mass and provide an appreciable increase in ability to rev. Who doesn't like that? It should also provide 2-5 previously lost HP. This could come in handy when you consider parasitic loss in the rest of the driveline. On top of that, electric fans provide consistent levels of cooling in all RPM situations and make general access to the front of the engine easier.
  • 3000 Pipe Upgrade - The stock 3000 pipe has been shown to be somewhat restrictive. It's a shame to get all that air flowing really well and then choke it off even a little at the 3000 pipe. There are larger ones out there, you might even be able to find an HKS version.

Also, you can replace the driveshaft with a 1-piece unit and reduce some parasitic loss, but that's completely separate from removing the engine and has little to do with the thread. At any rate, since the motor and tranny will be out there's little reason not to do it. You're already taking it halfway off to remove the transmission, right?

That's everything I can think of outside the block/internals. Take or leave what you wish, it's probably more than you can afford to do all of it. Some things like the piping/exhaust upgrade can be left until later, since they don't require disassembly of the engine to perform. Also, these upgrades are fairly small in nature and at the very bottom of the mechanical pyramid. As far as I can tell, there shouldn't be any supporting mods required in order to use the things I have suggested, apart from upgrading the CT-26 which may or may not require an AFM/injector upgrade depending on how far you go with it.

You have to buy new rods unless you absolutely want them or need them. Shot-peened stock rods have been shown to handle 500HP before having problems.

Be aware also that with a FFIM, there is definite potential for uneven air distribution in the cylinders. Make sure it's made well, or you might find some cylinders running lean while others run rich.

A final note: This may be painfully and ridiculously obvious, but increased horsepower requires an equal (or greater) increase in brake power. 0-60 is much less important than 60-0.
 
Last edited:

Josh Sulsberger

Down for whatever
Apr 9, 2005
69
0
0
51
Milwaukee, WI
Did we ever figure out if the HG is really blown? From the description it didn't sound like it, but I never saw if you did a leakdown or even checked the coolant hoses...
 

2543arvin

Moving to Japan!!!
Nov 30, 2006
879
0
0
Jacksonville, NC
p5150 said:
2jzge-T........ Its really not that expensive and will save you assloads of cash.
so buy a jdm 2jz-ge, convert it to turbo and with no knowledge of what kind of shape the motor is in, use that as opposed to a balanced and blueprinted 7m?:3d_frown: im speechless....
 

mkiiSupraMan18

Needs a new username...
Apr 1, 2005
2,161
0
0
United States
Just get the JDM 1J if you want it.

Unknown condition... pull the pan, swap bearings, check the cyl walls... If things look like crapp send it back or freshen it up.

Just remember, if you don't know what you're doing during the rebuild that engine wont last long either.
 

p5150

ASE and FAA A&P Certified
Mar 31, 2005
1,176
0
36
Central Idaho
2543arvin said:
im speechless....

So its safe to assume thats the last comment from you?:icon_bigg J/K

You can buy a USDM 2jzge for CHEAP. If you want to know why I think this is a good idea just do a quick search for my user ID and 2jzge. Ive explained this many times - if you are going for big HP it really is a very viable option.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
8,898
40
48
U.S.
www.ebay.com
I am going to back up a little bit. Studs are not easier to use and take the head on and off. I don't remember who said it, but it wasn't somebody who has done head work. It doesn't have to be a Supra to know that. Studs can be a pain. But they are better as already noted.

No matter what headgasket you use, when the head and block are out, make sure they are decked flat. Or you will be another statistic.

Good luck with the project.
 

kntmikado

Rage Your Dream...
Apr 2, 2005
116
0
0
East Troy, WI 53120
p5150 said:
So its safe to assume thats the last comment from you?:icon_bigg J/K

You can buy a USDM 2jzge for CHEAP. If you want to know why I think this is a good idea just do a quick search for my user ID and 2jzge. Ive explained this many times - if you are going for big HP it really is a very viable option.

If you stop and think about it, will it really be all that cheap to swap in a 2JZ engine? First there's the engine, second the transmission. After that you have wiring harnesses that need to be purchased and adapted to fit the 7m. On top of that you have the electronics that need to be fitted. Imported or otherwise, a 2JZ swap always requires a front clip, or at least the parts included in it. Even if it's still cheaper, there's also the cost in time of doing all that, and you neglected to mention about hammering the firewall. He's made his mind up that he wants the 7m rebuilt, why don't you leave it alone and stop attempting to confuse people? You can make plenty of big power on a 7m, nevermind the fact that his horsepower goals aren't high enough to even warrant a 2JZ swap in the first place.
 

Jaguar_5

It's ALIVE!
Feb 7, 2006
1,468
0
0
Seattle
I'll start this post by stating, i am far from an expert, hell I haven't even finished my first engine build, but i have learned a tremendous amount first-hand, as well as just being a sponge absorbing tons of info, and being able to discredit opinion and regurgitated information, from information from people like IJ, JJ, Jdub, etc etc. These guys speak not only from firsthand experience, but science and standards to back it up.

kntmikado, while I commend you for making such a long informative post, that definitely has some great points to consider, and certainly showing the best intentions, there are a few points you made that i believe is incorrectly regurgitated information... IMHO

I'll admit that my 'edits' are also somewhat regurgitated, and not first hand or expert, and should be looked at critically. BUT I believe I tend to have a knack at weeding out incorrect, commenly believed information

kntmikado said:
  • NA Cams - There was a lot of controversy about this for a while, but as long as you're aiming for under 500HP, NA cams are cheap and a perfectly good alternative to new cams. The timing of valve events (most notably the opening/closing of the exhaust valve IIRC) is slightly different on the NA. This leads to increases in power for turbos that aren't shooting for the sky. You'll have to replace a couple other parts while you're at it, but the upgrade is definitely worth considering.
It is my understanding that NA cams simply shift the power curve over, and doesn't help create more power
  • Lightweight/Adjustable Cam Gears - Less rotating mass, even if only slightly less, is still less work for the engine to do. Adjustability is also a good thing to have since you can tune the cams for even better power/torque.
I've never heard of the lightening of cam gears, I really don't think that the stock gears are heavy, they are iirc aluminum... if you're anal about efficiency, i suppose every 1/4 gram of rotating mass taken off can help the engine spool up quick, but keep in mind it will also loose momentum quicker too! If you know what you're doing, the adjustability is surely a good thing though
  • Electric Fan - Replacing the belt-driven fan for an electric fan will lessen rotational mass and provide an appreciable increase in ability to rev. Who doesn't like that? It should also provide 2-5 previously lost HP. This could come in handy when you consider parasitic loss in the rest of the driveline. On top of that, electric fans provide consistent levels of cooling in all RPM situations and make general access to the front of the engine easier.
I don't think anyone will argue that the stock fan / clutch will provide alot more airflow overall, then an electric fan. I haven't heard of problems with the stock setup causing heatsoak under idle, unless of course the clutch is worn out. Definitely does clear up some workspace though
  • 3000 Pipe Upgrade - The stock 3000 pipe has been shown to be somewhat restrictive. It's a shame to get all that air flowing really well and then choke it off even a little at the 3000 pipe. There are larger ones out there, you might even be able to find an HKS version.
I don't think theres much of a point in this until you've taken care of the rest of the intake first, the stock pipes mainly. A replacement for the 3000 pipe will surely complete a well rounded cold side though! P.S. iirc, MDC sells a cheap alternative to the HK$ option

Also, you can replace the driveshaft with a 1-piece unit and reduce some parasitic loss, but that's completely separate from removing the engine and has little to do with the thread. At any rate, since the motor and tranny will be out there's little reason not to do it. You're already taking it halfway off to remove the transmission, right?

For high speeds, it's better to have a joint in the middle vs. a one-piece ds, and again it does reduce weight and spool up of the engine, but when you let off you will lose momentum much quicker.

[....]

You have to buy new rods unless you absolutely want them or need them. Shot-peened stock rods have been shown to handle 500HP before having problems.

Have to is such a strong word... wait a second, you meant to say you don't have to... in that case, properly prepped rods have been known to handle more then that! Duane was running over 600, i believe 660 or so, with JE's and stock rods on his previous setup, he didn't rebuild because anything failed either! It is still not as fail-safe as forged of course

Be aware also that with a FFIM, there is definite potential for uneven air distribution in the cylinders. Make sure it's made well, or you might find some cylinders running lean while others run rich.

In other words, be patient and get a Ron R. :)

A final note: This may be painfully and ridiculously obvious, but increased horsepower requires an equal (or greater) increase in brake power. 0-60 is much less important than 60-0.

Fantastic advice, more people should bring that up when talking about HP mods!!
 

p5150

ASE and FAA A&P Certified
Mar 31, 2005
1,176
0
36
Central Idaho
If you stop and think about it, will it really be all that cheap to swap in a 2JZ engine?

I did stop to think about it, and ive done it.

First there's the engine,

1k at MOST for a 2jzge

second the transmission

Use an R154

After that you have wiring harnesses that need to be purchased and adapted to fit the 7m

comes with the engine

On top of that you have the electronics that need to be fitted. Imported or otherwise, a 2JZ swap always requires a front clip, or at least the parts included in it.

:puke: ing up misnformation.

Even if it's still cheaper, there's also the cost in time of doing all that, and you neglected to mention about hammering the firewall.

You neglected to look at my posts and see how ive put in my 2j without hammering the firewall.

He's made his mind up that he wants the 7m rebuilt, why don't you leave it alone and stop attempting to confuse people?

Actually I think you guys did a good job of convincing him he needs a rebuild.

You can make plenty of big power on a 7m, nevermind the fact that his horsepower goals aren't high enough to even warrant a 2JZ swap in the first place.

You are right you can make big power out of a 7m and I think he should keep his motor. Based on his symptoms I dont think he needs a rebuild. It would be a waste of his time and money to do an engine swap or rebuild.
 

2543arvin

Moving to Japan!!!
Nov 30, 2006
879
0
0
Jacksonville, NC
p5150 said:
Actually I think you guys did a good job of convincing him he needs a rebuild.
You are right you can make big power out of a 7m and I think he should keep his motor. Based on his symptoms I dont think he needs a rebuild. It would be a waste of his time and money to do an engine swap or rebuild.

read the title of the post^^^"what do i need to do a full rebuild?(just pointing out the obvious...)

if it is a waste of time to do the swap then why suggest one? i cant help but to be confused at your posts:nono: