What's the difference between pro race motors and a race built supra motor?

[mickyg]

All right, need some opinions here...

Been talking to the machinist that's working on my block and head and he's a bit of an old timer. He's been saying proper pro race cars get a million spent on 'em each year (he's talking about touring race cars) and that there's a reason for that. I want to know what that reason is, because I've been wondering myself!

How is it that we can spend $10,000 or less and make 600HP (generic figure here people), run it for sometimes years without problems and the "pros" are making around that, run it one season and have to through a million at 'em to rebuild?

Here's some thoughts I'd been tossing around:

1. Pro teams have a staff so everyone's got to get paid, that gets expensive.
2. Race cars are run flat out, all the time, whereas street cars get raced occasionally

And that's all I've got for now. Basically the debate is that you can't get high horsepower and have it be reliable without throwing insane amounts of money at a project.

Love to hear everyone's thoughts!

 

[IJ.]

RPM/Time is all.

Our motors get spun up for short periods race motors can be at maximum output for almost the entire race.
(who were you talking to?)

 

[ChadMKIII]

Simple, 'proper race cars' run at the top of their RPMs for most of the race. They shift into the lowest possible gear, and and run their engines to the redline most shifts. Plus, most of them have redlines up at 10k or above.

As you can imagine, 10000rpm is not exactly easy on an engine. In fact, in the Indy Racing League (US open wheelers) many engines are completely rebuilt/replaced after 2-3 races. So, figure the cost of an engine * # of engine/year gets to be pretty darn expensive.

Tires & wheels aren't exactly cheap (I've heard around 20k/year/team). Plus other small maintainence items on the car, and you can easily run it up to 750k-1mil per year.

BTW, my figures were USD, I don't know the conversion to Aussie money.

 

[Nick M]

One other thing.

Hotel
Food
Trailer
Tools
Staff

There are many things that go into the budget.

 

[Yellow 13]

I know a ton of money goes into a rally cars. They damn near replace the whole car after each race.

 

[mickyg]

Exactly as I thought guys! Thanks for the feedback.

Ian, the guy I was speaking to is the machinist that's doing some basic work on my head/block at the moment. Shop's called MS Engine Rebuilders. I was telling him a bit about high horsepower supras and he mentioned "happy dynos" and then went into a discussion about how expensive it is to have cars that produce that kind of power consistently. He's a V8 man though and probably hates the newer turbo cars and the reputation some of the local hoons have built up!

 

[IJ.]

LOL our dyno's don't seem to be quite as "happy" as the US based ones though

 

[mickyg]

It's funny how they change, isn't it! This guy was talking about dyno variances between shops in this area and how one showed almost a 100hp difference. The context was some guy bragging about his 5 litre V8 putting out heaps of power and then getting on the dyno to see it only made 300HP!

 

[IJ.]

Yep I always try to stick to one shop and operator and try and book in at roughly the same time to keep variables to a minimum.

 

[ChadMKIII]

And actually, what you quoted, micky, was that he said the cars get that much spent on em.

When you consider the driver sallary, race team, owner cuts, equipment purchases, wear and tear on the transportation trucks and RVs, gas for said transportation, hotels, etc, the list could go on for a long time, it costs a hell of a lot more than just a mil to keep a race team running.

 

[IJ.]

Back in 1988 we had a 3 mill a year budget just for the cars.

 

[mickyg]

Yep, it's definitely not cheap! I'm pretty sure this guy was talking engine alone though. I would imagine "engine" could include the mechanics, shop time, R&D, parts, etc... for just that aspect.

Either way, it's a big difference to our humble vehicles. It does beg the question though, how long would our motors run if they had the same duties as a full blown race engine, and more importantly, what kind of money would you have to throw at it?

To be more specific, the Group A Supras - how long did those motors run before they had to be completely rebuilt?