Synapse BOV compared to hks ssqv

Shima

I'v got Supra powers
May 23, 2007
215
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carlisle
skipbarber;1003053 said:
synapse = junk

since theres so many negative responses i was wondering why these are "junk" just curious. i'd like some information backing up your statement :) just trying to get a feel for some of the bovs out there.
 

Zumtizzle

Can't Wait to Be King.
Oct 21, 2006
2,825
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Sac-Town, NorCal
Shima;1004405 said:
since theres so many negative responses i was wondering why these are "junk" just curious. i'd like some information backing up your statement :) just trying to get a feel for some of the bovs out there.

See POST 3!
 

A-to-the-J

Panda™ and Pre-89 Gracer™
Feb 19, 2006
1,080
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Anaheim/West Covina, CA
I'm not doubting anything stated here, I would just like to hear from somebody's first hand experience. I need a new BOV, and this one came up as a probable canadate.

I don't want to hear, "I saw/heard this or that". Hearsay and info is great, but doesn't mean much when you have actual, first hand experience.
So if anybody has used this BOV, what are your remarks on it?
 

Shima

I'v got Supra powers
May 23, 2007
215
0
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carlisle
*I e-mailed synapse and asked for a description and picture of the internals of there bov and they gave me this link with the following information for anyone that wants to read up on them.


When I designed Synchronic BOV, I really wasn't thinking about trying to outdo every BOV design on the market. In fact, just 1 year prior, I was granted the patent on the technology behind the Synchronic geometry. My goal, was first to see how this geometry would apply to a BOV, considering that it works completely different from my previous application of the geometry to a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.

So whenever you design product, you have to have some design goals. Or what design engineers like to call, design intent. My 3 primary goals were:

1) Design a BOV that would absolutely NOT LEAK boost

2) Design a BOV that would actuate very fast

3) Design a BOV that would stay shut
under high vacuum (to be discussed later)

Problem #1: Design a BOV that would absolutely not leak boost Once I started to work on the geometry in 3D CAD, I knew that I had to design a pull-type valve that seated harder as boost increased in the intercooler pipe. I also started to understand where the Synchronic geometry fit in. I knew that I could address #1 by using the different surface areas of Synchronic in order to have surface areas exposed to system boost pressure that mathematically would not allow the valve to move in any direction, under boost, except to close the valve to the seat. This is where Port A and Port B www.synapseengineering.com/pdf/bov-manual.pdf fall in relation to the valve area of the BOV. Applying the same system pressure to Port A and Port B at the same time as there being boost pressure in the intercooler pipe, coupled with spring pre-load pressure meant that mathematically, there was no way for Synchronic's valve to open. Now the valve not opening doesn't mean that it won't leak Many BOVs out there don't leak because their valves open. In fact, they should, theoretically, not leak either. But where most designs fail is in their sealing mechanism. The best seals are not statically pressed pieces that try to hold off pressure from getting by. instead, they are dynamically moving mechanisms that actively react to changes in pressure to seal them off. Which is why I decided to engineer proper o-ring glands, especially at the dynamic valve head that would move in relation to the sealing surface I designed. Other designs go the easy route by using rubber overmolded washers like those used in window seals in your house instead of a properly engineered sealing gland, like those used in aerospace.

Problem #2: Design a BOV that would actuate very fast I already knew that simply eliminating the diaphragm in the design would increase the response time of the valve by eliminating the time required to stretch the diaphragm when the actuating pressure came in to pull the valve open.
diaphragmstretch.jpg



But would you believe that the Synchronic geometry itself has plenty to do with a fast acting valve? You see, a piston alone doesn't mean that you have a stable valve actuating mechanism. If you only have 1 plane of support with 1 o-ring tier, you still have rocking of the piston back and forth, and the same goes with adding o-rings of the same diameter. What Synchronic geometry offered were 3 tiers of o-rings on 3 different diameters. That meant a very stable actuating mechanism when you actually wanted it to pull the valve quickly. Even though there was added friction, the design eliminated noise in actuation. On top of that, the 3 tiers generated 4 pressure chambers.


SynchronicVSLegacyActuator.jpg


In a normal single tier actuator design, you only have 2 surface areas that pressure works upon. The top and bottom of the actuator surface on either side of the o-ring. In the Synchronic design, you actually have pressure working on cylinder surfaces that self center the actuator when it is pressurized which leads to a more stable actuation. And even though you leave some of those chambers to atmosphere, you have to remember that atmoshperic pressure is still pressure. And as the piston collapses that chamber, the air that was in the chamber is exhausting out the port at a rate that follows the movement of the piston and acts on all surfaces within the chamber.

Now, the thing with most push-type BOVs is that pressure in the intercooler pipe helps push them open when vacuum pulls the actuator up. Since Synchronic BOV is a pull-type, this means that as boost pressure increases, the harder that valve seats to seal off boost. This is why there is Port C. I designed the surface area of Port C to be just the right ratio to either Port A, Port B or Port A & B so that when boost-only pressure is applied to Port C, it will either open at a high boost pressure, or not open at all. But what Port C does is that it equalizes the pressure on either side of the piston so that no matter how much boost you run, 5, 10, 20, 50, 150 psi of boost. There will always be the same amount of force required to open the BOV when you close the throttle. You have to remember that no matter how much boost you run, whether it is 5 or 150 psi. When you shut the throttle, you'll always have the same 20-26" of vacuum!



Problem #3: Design a BOV that would stay shut under high vacuum Something told me not to worry about this too much until later. When I first started to test the prototypes of the design, I couldn't get the valve to stay shut under heavy vacuum. When it would be shut at idle, the BOV wouldn't open. And when it would be open at idle, it would work perfectly between gears. I kept fighting it and fighting it, until I finally gave up and conceded to the design. Little did I know later that this was one of those discoveries of serendipity. Beta testers began to report better throttle response. What? I started to look at how that worked and, guess what? It makes sense. By bypassing the restriction of the turbo, intercooler piping and all the surface area of the intercooler, you do get better throttle response when coming off of vacuum. And they also started to report better fuel economy. ? So testing on the dyno started to show that cars were able to hold the same RPM and wheel speed with less horsepower and torque. So this just isn't a "defective" feature to fight, but instead embrace. Instead of going for the ricer noise that we all secretly long for, we need instead to re-circulate the BOV inlet/discharge and run a cone filter to get the noise.


*That was just the first post here is the link they provided me with for anyone to read the rest.

http://synapseengineering.com/smf/index.php?topic=30.0
 

WhtMa71

D0 W3RK
Apr 24, 2007
1,813
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Macon, GA
Yea so unless you guys have actually owned and used a synapse BOV for any amount of time,dont fucking open your mouth about how bad they are. If you have no clue and just wanna swing from HKS' nuts then stfu.
HKS and synapse are not the same thing.
Go to their website, they also have a fourm.
 

Zumtizzle

Can't Wait to Be King.
Oct 21, 2006
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MK3Brent

Very expensive....
Aug 1, 2005
2,878
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Greensboro and Greenville NC
I'm a capitalist at heart, and am 100% for new innovation and implementation. I don't believe I ever "called out" synapse about their product. They put a couple videos on youtube trying to make TiAL bov's seem sluggish. TiAL's are finicky when it comes to vacuum source and spring pre-load. Not enough vacuum and too tight of a spring will cause surging. (Problems I had with my TiAL, but weren't a big deal.)

All in all, it appears great time and effort went into engineering the Synapse unit... and maybe one day I'll give one of their wastegates a try. (not their bov)


One last thing:

BOV location on the IC pipe route is also CRITICAL.
 

Rennat

5psi...? haha
Dec 6, 2005
2,844
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Tracy, CA
www.myspace.com
i have NEVER seen a tial move that fast until that video(2nd one)
and i can completely see the point of using the different springs...

its just marketing though...
 

WhtMa71

D0 W3RK
Apr 24, 2007
1,813
0
36
Macon, GA
Id probably stick to a Tial wastgate..But id be more inclined to use Synapses BOV.
That Tial BOV in the vid above is also right next to the TB as well as the Vac. source. Usually when you buy their bov though there is no opiton to get different springs.
 

starscream5000

Senior VIP Member
Aug 23, 2006
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Hot and Humid, KY
I've had my synapse for a few months now, and still love it. It's just as fast actuating as it was the first day I bought it, still better than the HKS I had on before. Just for shits and giggles, last weekend I put the HKS back on since I've been accustomed to the synapse for so long now.

Let me tell you, it was quite noticable on the difference between how fast the two would actuate in comparison. The HKS felt slow to react all weekend long that I used it. I put the synapse back on last Sunday. It's faster, and doesn't sound like rice and attract too much attention. Yes, I do know you can take the fins out of the SSQV to make it more quite, but still, why bother? I've got a better one to use ;).
 

A-to-the-J

Panda™ and Pre-89 Gracer™
Feb 19, 2006
1,080
1
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38
Anaheim/West Covina, CA
starscream5000;1012817 said:
I've had my synapse for a few months now, and still love it. It's just as fast actuating as it was the first day I bought it, still better than the HKS I had on before. Just for shits and giggles, last weekend I put the HKS back on since I've been accustomed to the synapse for so long now.

Let me tell you, it was quite noticable on the difference between how fast the two would actuate in comparison. The HKS felt slow to react all weekend long that I used it. I put the synapse back on last Sunday. It's faster, and doesn't sound like rice and attract too much attention. Yes, I do know you can take the fins out of the SSQV to make it more quite, but still, why bother? I've got a better one to use ;).
thank you! that decides it for me.
 

bountykilla0118

In Pursuit of 500rwhp
Jul 16, 2005
1,088
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36
39
Atlanta GA
I will add that i have compressor surge at low boost with the HKS .... i put my a bosh with the HKS and now I dont have compressor surge at low boost. I dont think I should have to do that.

Has anyone with an older HKS with the adjustment screw been able to eliminate compressor surge?