SupraRon's Refreshment

[SupraRon]

Well I figure it's about time I do something to speed up my car. I've owned my MKIII for close to 5 years now. I currently have upgraded the suspension to HSD coilovers and a full 3" catback exhaust. After doing the exhaust swap, I felt instant power gain. The car felt way more responsive, but it still lacked a lot of power. I took it to the dyno and only topped out at 188.3hp. Here's the thread for that: http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104593

I came to the realization that this is probably all the power I could squeeze out of a 20 year engine with a simple upgrade. So an opportunity came up where one of the local Supra owners was swapping his engine out and I decided to clear some space in his garage (thanks again Jamie)!

This engine has a MHG and ARP studs and was making 300hp to the wheels, when the boost was bumped up. The compression was also tested and the numbers were 170 for 1,2 and 6. 155 for 4 and 5 and 3 was at 140. <-- Anyone's thoughts on that?

So basically, I'm going to take out my current engine and swap this one in. Since I have the engine out and accessible, Jamie advised me to replace the rear main seal (not that its bad, but just thats its easier with the engine out) and some of the other gaskets such as the intake manifold/tb/cam covers. Let me know if there is anything else you think I should change.

Funny story about this was how I got the engine home. Jamie is in Oshawa and I'm in Mississauga, about 100KM apart. I kinda took the cheap way out and decided to try with my dd. I pull up to Jamie's place and he says to himself, 'This will be interesting'. After eye-balling a little bit, we decided to try to fit the engine in my car. It fit like a glove. A tire was on the left side and a skid on the other with a 1x4 piece of particle board under the motor mount to prop it up and keep it from moving around. I never truly realized the full potential of my Mazda 5, but it is great and I'm so glad I have it! The engine made it home in one piece (so did my Mazda) and hardly moved while making the trip back. I was supposed to take a picture, but forgot. Definitely will with the next engine I haul with it.

Anyhow, here are some pics of the engine:

Engine Shot #1

Engine Shot #2

Some other things I will be doing while my car is down:

- Doward's BBK, finally!
- Whiteline sway bars
- Targa seals
- possibly IC hard pipes
- and the slightest possibility that I swap in a rebuilt CT26.

This will be a slow swap because for one it is freezin' cold here and two, I have to spend some time with the family I'll try to keep it as up-to-date as possible.

 

[Stretch]

Good luck buddy! It's not that cold, you just have to get some small heater for the garage to work on the car. Excess Cargo had propane heaters that are perfect for this,; see if they still do. I look forward to more pics .
eric

 

[SupraRon]

Good luck buddy! It's not that cold, you just have to get some small heater for the garage to work on the car. Excess Cargo had propane heaters that are perfect for this,; see if they still do. I look forward to more pics .
eric

Thanks Eric. I'll check out xscargo. They're just down the street from me!

 

[SupraRon]

I started with replacing the rear main seal. The old one didn't look to be in bad condition, but might as well change it.

I need someone's opinion on the seal retainer. I notice some "stress fractures". Is this something I should be worried about and order a new one or can I reuse it? They don't seem to go through to the other side.

Just doing some exploring. Took the cam covers off. Cams seem to be in very good shape.

 

[CajunKenny]

Hey Ron! If you can easily source another rear seal retainer, do so. If not, just clean up all the mating surfaces on the one you've got and run it. Unless of course any of the cracks are all the way through. Just keep an eye out for another one for the next time you've got the engine out.

Here's a little "trick of the trade" that I do. I hit mating surfaces that will have sealant applied with polishing compound before install. I do this for coolant hoses also. Things seal better that way. Have you ever tried to pull a radiator hose off a freshly polished radiator? They don't come off easy. Nor do they leak!

Until you pull the cam caps and inspect the cam lobes, all bets are off on their condition. Things could look great on the outside. I hope you're going to clean up that NASTY center galley cover!!!!

Nice car and it's good to see a replacement engine being freshened up!

 

[suprahooked]

I dont like them compression #s they should be within 10 to 15 lbs of each other.
Good luck with the build.

 

[SupraRon]

Hey Ron! If you can easily source another rear seal retainer, do so. If not, just clean up all the mating surfaces on the one you've got and run it. Unless of course any of the cracks are all the way through. Just keep an eye out for another one for the next time you've got the engine out.

Here's a little "trick of the trade" that I do. I hit mating surfaces that will have sealant applied with polishing compound before install. I do this for coolant hoses also. Things seal better that way. Have you ever tried to pull a radiator hose off a freshly polished radiator? They don't come off easy. Nor do they leak!

Until you pull the cam caps and inspect the cam lobes, all bets are off on their condition. Things could look great on the outside. I hope you're going to clean up that NASTY center galley cover!!!!

Nice car and it's good to see a replacement engine being freshened up!

If I didn't get any feedback, I was gonna buy a new one. Thanks for the confirmation. I'm gonna call up the dealership and see how much. I will give the compound trick a whirl. I'm sure it will work very well.

The lobes that I can see look great. I will however take the caps off and do a thorough inspection. Every time I see the center galley, I cringe. Believe me, it will be cleaned. I think it was due to the leaking cam covers. Those will be replaced soon.

At first, I was gonna just drop it in, but I figured I have time and I want it to look a little pretty.

Thanks for comments Kenny.

I dont like them compression #s they should be within 10 to 15 lbs of each other.
Good luck with the build.

Any suggestions? Let me know.

 

[CajunKenny]

Here's what the TSRM says about compression. There should be no more than a 14 psi difference.

If the compression check was not done per these instructions that alone can throw off the numbers.

Think hard about your power goals. If they're up there then you're going to want to rebuild completely. If they're not that high, then that one cylinder won't make that much difference. However! If that one cylinder is low because of damage or premature failure, it will require a complete rebuild regardless of power goals.

How far down are you taking this motor?

 

[SupraRon]

I didn't question Jamie (previous owner) on how he did the compression check, but I'm sure he did as per the TSRM. I'll find out for sure.

I'm hoping for 275HP. Jamie was running 300HP on 10psi daily and didn't have issues.

So how can I check the compression with the engine out of the car?

I wasn't planning to tear the motor down at all. Just a clean up, replace some seals, replace the CPS and then drop it in. The motor that is currently in the car will be the one that gets rebuilt from the bottom up. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[twan]

to do a compression test with the engine out it would be wise to rent or buy a engine stand. i never tried it buy maybe you could through a starter on there if there isnt one already and boost it. or you could get a long Johnson bar and use some elbow grease to crank her over.
im in pickering, if you ever need a hand let me know.

 

[CajunKenny]

I've never done a compression check on an engine that wasn't in a car. If it was out of the car, it was getting overhauled.

The TSRM specifies having a good battery for the compression test. One of the reasons for that is so the engine will turn over at a good rate.

If I were going to try this, I would mount it on an engine stand like twan suggested and use the starter to turn it over. You'll need some heavy gauge wire and a good switch.

Here's the million dollar question:
What's the Head Gasket status on this motor...Oem...Metal...ARP's...?


Love the story behind this motor by the way. That's classic! I wish you had taken pictures though! :biglaugh:

 

[SupraRon]

I've never done a compression check on an engine that wasn't in a car. If it was out of the car, it was getting overhauled.

The TSRM specifies having a good battery for the compression test. One of the reasons for that is so the engine will turn over at a good rate.

If I were going to try this, I would mount it on an engine stand like twan suggested and use the starter to turn it over. You'll need some heavy gauge wire and a good switch.

Here's the million dollar question:
What's the Head Gasket status on this motor...Oem...Metal...ARP's...?

Love the story behind this motor by the way. That's classic! I wish you had taken pictures though! :biglaugh:

The head gasket is a HKS 1.2mm MHG with ARP studs torqued correctly (not sure of the exact number, but it definitely more than the factory spec). They were then retorqued after a few heat cycles. It was done by a Toyota mechanic who is also a Supra owner. I'm positive it's not a BHG and I've been reassured by Jamie that it isn't. He's a good guy, knows his stuff and I trust him.

The engine stand is next to be ordered. I just wanted to finish up the rear main seal first. So I'll try to do another compression test when I have the stand.

Jamie and I were laughing about it and he suggested I take pictures. I got so excited about taking it out of the car, that I forgot! :nono: I promise to do it for the next motor I bring home! :icon_bigg

to do a compression test with the engine out it would be wise to rent or buy a engine stand. i never tried it buy maybe you could through a starter on there if there isnt one already and boost it. or you could get a long Johnson bar and use some elbow grease to crank her over.
im in pickering, if you ever need a hand let me know.

Thanks for the info and offer. I'll let you know if I need a hand.

 

[Tire Shredder]

Ron, Congrats man! this should make your car a hell of a lot faster!

I actually helped with some of the spruce-ups that were done on this motor about 4 years ago. with the aforementioned mechanic.

The car did start to burn a lot of oil after he had it a few years and we determined it was the valve seals. One long ass day, we removed the head, cleaned things up, replaced it with a rebuilt head that had valve guides, a valve job, new seals and a resurfacing (hence the cleanliness you see there). of course, the valves were shimmed too. At the same time, an HKS MHG was installed with ARP studs and torqued to whatever ARP said...I forget, now. The block was never resurfaced, just cleaned thoroughly and checked with a straight edge. The important note to remember is that the engine never did have a BHG...

I can't remember if that compression test was done before or after the dyno was performed.

I was present for the compression test, too. I was testing my mk2's 5m one weekend as I was curious, and jamie thought he would join in, aswell. He had no reason to test it, just curious as I was. We were concerned with the numbers we saw, but the car was damn fast and had no ill-symptoms (no burning oil etc.) if I remember correctly, we didn't do it exactly like the TSRM listed, but I don't think it would effect the results. The engine was warm, we removed the coil, wires, plugs and intake. the EFI fuse was removed and we cranked the motor over. This was the same method I had done on the 5m, and it had returned consistent results.


I've ridden in it and driven it several times, even right up to the day he parked it to remove the motor. The engine still runs great and is fast as ever, I'd ignore the compression numbers until it actually shows some signs of being ill. Honestly, I've seen no degradation in performance (or oil consumption or any cooling issues) over the past 4 years. I've never seen a car as fast as that one, with such mild modifications.

hell, just this summer the thing ran a 13.6 @ 102 I think the boost was somewhere around 14psi and settling down to 12 if I recall, though. sawbladz could fill in the details.

 

[SupraRon]

Ron, Congrats man! this should make your car a hell of a lot faster!

I actually helped with some of the spruce-ups that were done on this motor about 4 years ago. with the aforementioned mechanic.

The car did start to burn a lot of oil after he had it a few years and we determined it was the valve seals. One long ass day, we removed the head, cleaned things up, replaced it with a rebuilt head that had valve guides, a valve job, new seals and a resurfacing (hence the cleanliness you see there). of course, the valves were shimmed too. At the same time, an HKS MHG was installed with ARP studs and torqued to whatever ARP said...I forget, now. The block was never resurfaced, just cleaned thoroughly and checked with a straight edge. The important note to remember is that the engine never did have a BHG...

I can't remember if that compression test was done before or after the dyno was performed.

I was present for the compression test, too. I was testing my mk2's 5m one weekend as I was curious, and jamie thought he would join in, aswell. He had no reason to test it, just curious as I was. We were concerned with the numbers we saw, but the car was damn fast and had no ill-symptoms (no burning oil etc.) if I remember correctly, we didn't do it exactly like the TSRM listed, but I don't think it would effect the results. The engine was warm, we removed the coil, wires, plugs and intake. the EFI fuse was removed and we cranked the motor over. This was the same method I had done on the 5m, and it had returned consistent results.


I've ridden in it and driven it several times, even right up to the day he parked it to remove the motor. The engine still runs great and is fast as ever, I'd ignore the compression numbers until it actually shows some signs of being ill. Honestly, I've seen no degradation in performance (or oil consumption or any cooling issues) over the past 4 years. I've never seen a car as fast as that one, with such mild modifications.

hell, just this summer the thing ran a 13.6 @ 102 I think the boost was somewhere around 14psi and settling down to 12 if I recall, though. sawbladz could fill in the details.

Thanks Steve. I'm super-excited to get the engine in.

Nice to get more info about the engine. Jamie did tell me all of this, but I forgot all the particulars. Thanks for that.

I didn't get a chance to ride with Jamie, but I remember that day coming back from Fenelon Falls. I could NOT keep up with you guys. I felt like I was holding you back. A LOT!!

I didn't want to bother Jamie as I know he's pretty busy with school. Depending on time and temperature, I should have the engine in a little while. Off to the dealership for the $140 oil seal retainer! :aigo:

 

[Tire Shredder]

Thanks Steve. I'm super-excited to get the engine in.

Nice to get more info about the engine. Jamie did tell me all of this, but I forgot all the particulars. Thanks for that.

I didn't get a chance to ride with Jamie, but I remember that day coming back from Fenelon Falls. I could NOT keep up with you guys. I felt like I was holding you back. A LOT!!

I didn't want to bother Jamie as I know he's pretty busy with school. Depending on time and temperature, I should have the engine in a little while. Off to the dealership for the $140 oil seal retainer! :aigo:

and I was just in my 7MGE mk2! just wait until you have this turbo motor in. It's honestly a freak of nature, that motor...it makes a lot of torque (333lbs*ft if I recall). Faster than phil's modded TTR. and it has the track time to back it up.. It should totally transform your car. Swaybars will be awesome too!

best of luck.

 

[CajunKenny]

I didn&#8217;t suspect a BHG. Not yet anyway&#8230;

That&#8217;s exactly what I&#8217;m running. An HKS 1.2mm MHG under a rebuilt head and stock block. Mine has been holding just fine.

Something to remember is that the stock HG is 1.37mm compressed. We&#8217;re both running the 1.2mm with material removed from the rebuilt head so our compression is a tad higher. Keep that in mind if/when you start turning up the boost. That is also good info to pass on to your tuner/dyno operator.

Now that we know the story on your motor, I&#8217;d forgo the compression test until it&#8217;s in the car.

It appears that you just need to address some leaks, drop her in, and hold on!! :biglaugh:

Regarding your rear seal retainer, don&#8217;t pay top dollar for it at the dealership. There are plenty of resources on this forum for better prices. Jeff Lange might be able to help or at least get you in touch with someone who can. He&#8217;s in Canada and works for Toyota.

 

[SupraRon]

and I was just in my 7MGE mk2! just wait until you have this turbo motor in. It's honestly a freak of nature, that motor...it makes a lot of torque (333lbs*ft if I recall). Faster than phil's modded TTR. and it has the track time to back it up.. It should totally transform your car. Swaybars will be awesome too!

best of luck.

I can hardly wait. Believe me! :icon_bigg

 

[SupraRon]

I didn’t suspect a BHG. Not yet anyway…

That’s exactly what I’m running. An HKS 1.2mm MHG under a rebuilt head and stock block. Mine has been holding just fine.

Something to remember is that the stock HG is 1.37mm compressed. We’re both running the 1.2mm with material removed from the rebuilt head so our compression is a tad higher. Keep that in mind if/when you start turning up the boost. That is also good info to pass on to your tuner/dyno operator.

Now that we know the story on your motor, I’d forgo the compression test until it’s in the car.

It appears that you just need to address some leaks, drop her in, and hold on!! :biglaugh:

Regarding your rear seal retainer, don’t pay top dollar for it at the dealership. There are plenty of resources on this forum for better prices. Jeff Lange might be able to help or at least get you in touch with someone who can. He’s in Canada and works for Toyota.

Thanks for the tips Kenny. I'm really a newb when it comes to this so the more info I get, the better.

Now saying that, I should've been a little more resourceful or looked at this thread before I went to the dealer. I already special ordered the retainer. It's non-refundable. So I guess I'm stuck paying $158 :aigo: (taxes) for it. Next time I'll know to speak with Jeff.

So, I'm waiting for the retainer as it's special order from Cali. Should be here in 5 days. While I'm waiting, I'll probably clean up the cam covers and whatever else I can get to.

 

[SupraRon]

UPDATE: A small one, but an update nonetheless. Got the new oil retainer. I was surprised it got here so quickly.

Also, cleaned up the valve covers. Removed all the oil. I'll probably be painting them a flat or satin black with the ribs grey/silver. Not sure yet. Comments?

Here they are cleaned up:

Still need to remove the bracket.

 

[CajunKenny]

Flat Black with silver/gray ribs will look nice! Do it!