Should I get my block decked?

Doobs

New Member
Feb 1, 2006
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Ey all,

As I am a victim of the grand ole 7M BHG, I have decided to replace my head gasket (amongst other things), with a cometic metal one. I have just got the head back from being surfaced and checked out, and its all sweet and smooth.

Now for the block, I asked at the head shop whether I should get the block decked, he said its up too me, but some fine emery cloth on a flat file should do the trick... I really don’t want to pull the guts out of the block, as that would mean I'm gonna spend a shit load of money on it... but I will, if its warranted.

Surely many other victims have been down this road, your opinions/thoughts would help me greatly.

Thanx fellas, any help is greatly appreciated.
 

bowsercake

New Member
Aug 24, 2005
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Don't know from experience but I've heard others reccommend that you lap the block. Just spend as long as you feel like on it, though I hear it takes at least 8 hours to do it close to perfect. BTW, You want to lap it in a figure 8 style to get it correct.
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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I come from a land down under
Man I wish this urban myth would die already......

Lapping a block is done as a very final stage AFTER it's been machined think of it as an ultra fine polish it's NOT and never will be a substitute for a smooth flat true surface as required by a MLS gasket.........
 

miggles

i wasnt speeding officer
Jun 3, 2005
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perth West Australia
the machinist im using (sigh. 8weeks later and still not ready) had to take off 10thou from the block. this was from a low kms halfcut.low kms meaning 100km+ :icon_evil
I had no idea that spare block was so far out.Check with a straight edge first and if you can afford it then do it.
 

Jason T

JZS161 Aristo TT
Mar 30, 2005
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Auckland New Zealand..Aotearoa
Surely many other victims have been down this road, your opinions/thoughts would help me greatly.

Been there done that

I stripped it down and decked block and head

Try placing a straight edge on the deck surface and see how flat it is

My block looked good but was not flat GET IT RESURFACED

Heres a bill for rebuild parts http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/JasonTomlins/RebuildPartsInvoice.jpg Brought 3 gaskets from toyota $35 spent $150 at machine shop mates rates
 

bigaaron

Supramania Contributor
Apr 12, 2005
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Pomona, CA
www.driftmotion.com
IJ. said:
Man I wish this urban myth would die already......
Me too!

Smooth and flat are two different things. If you don't have both you will probably get another bhg!
The "lapping" thing has always been a bandaid for poorly surfaced blocks or for people who don't want to do it right by taking the block out of the car and getting it surfaced. If you take it to a shop with a CBN surfacing machine they can get a low ra smooth finish that does not need lapping.
 

bigaaron

Supramania Contributor
Apr 12, 2005
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Here is some good reading on different types of surfacing machines that are used:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/eb40444.htm

Excerpt from it:
The surfacing needs of today's engines are as complex as the engines themselves. Multi-valve aluminum cylinder heads on cast iron blocks are a tough combination to seal because of the difference in expansion rates between the two metals. If the surface finishes on the head and block are too rough, lateral shearing forces which occur as the engine heats up and cools down can literally scrub a head gasket to death.

To handle such forces, a growing number of late model engines now use multi-layer steel (MLS) head gaskets. These include many Ford, Chrysler, Honda/Acura, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru and Toyota engines, plus Jeep 4.7L V8 and Volkswagen 2.0L SOHC engines. MLS gaskets typically have 3 to 5 layers of steel and are extremely tough. But they have little conformability and require a very smooth finish on both the block and cylinder head to seal properly. OEM specifications vary, but surface finish requirements for MLS head gaskets typically range from 15 to 30 microinches Ra or less.

The ability to duplicate OEM surface finishes is a must on these applications, especially if OEM style MLS gaskets are being installed in the engine. Some aftermarket replacement gaskets for these engines have a thicker surface coating that can accommodate a more "traditional" surface finish of up to 60 microinches Ra. But most MLS replacement gaskets require the same surface finish as the original - which means engine builders must have surfacing equipment that can duplicate a finish that meets OEM specifications.

MLS gaskets have also become very popular in racing. Most NASCAR engines today are running MLS gaskets, and the people who are putting these engines together typically want finishes in the low teens or even single digits! That level of smoothness can only be obtained with equipment that has the rigidity, accuracy and control flexibility to produce an ultra-smooth finish.

A number of things are required to achieve a really smooth finish. One is that a surfacer must allow the right combination of cutting speed and feed rate to achieve really low numbers. If the feed rate is too fast or the cutter spins too slowly, the finish may be too rough. Surfacers with multi-bit cutters can handle much faster feed rates than a surfacer with only a single bit cutter - but the tradeoff is higher tooling and maintenance costs, plus more time to set up and adjust multiple cutting bits.

A feed rate of two inches per minute at 1,000 rpm with a two-bladed cutter will typically give a surface finish in the low teens. Increase the feed rate, decrease the rpm or use a single-bladed cutter and the numbers go up. To get the same finish with a single cutter head, the feed rate has to be cut in half to one inch per minute at the same 1,000 rpm cutting speed.

Smooth surface finishes can be achieved with any kind of cutting bit including carbide, CBN or PCD, but carbide obviously wears faster and requires more frequent replacement. The economics of carbide versus PCD or CBN will depend on the volume of work that's being done, the type of heads being resurfaced (cast iron, aluminum or both), the number of bits per cutter and the cost per bit. Many shops have gone away from carbide and are now using CBN and/or PCD. In the past, PCD was recommended for aluminum and CBN for cast iron. But many shops report having success using CBN alone for both metals.
 
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