Setup help

Turbo Drifter

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Dec 8, 2005
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Surrey, BC Canada
I have a MKIII and am having problems finding any info about good wheel and tire setups for track use. As well as any one doing any decent work on the suspension. For now I have Racing Gear N1 coil overs, I also have some Bilstein coil overs needing a rebuild. Any one have any MKIII specific alignment settings to start with?

For wheels I have been looking at wheels in the 17x10 range (RPF1's) front and rear. For tires I have been thinking about a tire that I can drive on weekends and at the track 4-5 times a year. Looking at ST-615 or Kumho SX's as for size, as large as I can fit...anyone? lol. I know 255's have been done in the front anyone think a 255 front and a 285 rear is ok? The fenders are rolled and pulled slightly.

This car is just a weekend fun car and I would like to get back on the road course again.

The cars got a built 2jz with a dbb t67 .68a/r, will be running in the 480-520 range low boost. I have most the cooling sorted out other than ducting, the weight is 3320lbs with 1/2 tank gas and me (205lbs) in it.

Thanks for any help,

Jeremy
 

Wiisass

Supramania Contributor
You seem to be missing a lot of information. What exactly are you looking for?

A good suspension for the car? Alignment specs? Tire size?

They're all too related to say one without the other. What spring rates, what ride height, what wheel offset.

All I really know right now is what your car weighs and how much power it makes.

For suspension though, it seems you didn't look that far. Racing Gear coilover sound like another cheap asian setup. So I'm assuming the valving is on par with the other cheap asian crap on the market. The Bilsteins are a good choice, but there are some limitations depending on what you want to do with them.

For wheel/tire fitment, there's a giant thread with everything in it in the General section of the forum. You could take a look there for ideas. It's going to depend on your wheel offset, ride height, alignment setting, body modifications, etc. Like if you want to run a 275/40 on a 17x10+18, you're going to need to do a little work. But if you wanted to do it on a 17x10+35 you probably won't have as much trouble. That's also assuming you have the car low enough to look cool. But I would check the thread. I don't even know if that will fit. I mean it will fit, but I don't know how much you'll have to do to really make it work.
 

Turbo Drifter

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Dec 8, 2005
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Wiisass;1183762 said:
You seem to be missing a lot of information. What exactly are you looking for?

A good suspension for the car? Alignment specs? Tire size?

yes

They're all too related to say one without the other. What spring rates, what ride height, what wheel offset.

All I really know right now is what your car weighs and how much power it makes.

That's why I posted in here trying to get the information and car set up well. I kind of figured you would need to know the weight and power as well as what the car is going to be used for. I do not mind if the car is stiff as I will be only driving it on weekends and in nice weather. As for the ride high as low as I can and still maintain good performance.

For suspension though, it seems you didn't look that far. Racing Gear coilover sound like another cheap asian setup. So I'm assuming the valving is on par with the other cheap asian crap on the market. The Bilsteins are a good choice, but there are some limitations depending on what you want to do with them.

Yeah it sure sounds like you looked far in your conclusion "sound like another cheap asian setup". You really seam to have some strong feelings towards anything made in Japan.

The Bilsteins I have are out of a YSR Group-A shop race car that I parted out in Japan. I do not know the valving nor the spring rates. I know that when I had them on the car they were very stiff yet very controlled. The car felt planted and well set up as far as damping and spring rates.

I'm not looking necessarily use ether of this set ups if there is something out there better?

After cutting down what seems like both my coilovers what do you recommend? I was looking for your recommendations for coilovers anyways, not sure if after your response its worth a damn.


For wheel/tire fitment, there's a giant thread with everything in it in the General section of the forum. You could take a look there for ideas. It's going to depend on your wheel offset, ride height, alignment setting, body modifications, etc. Like if you want to run a 275/40 on a 17x10+18, you're going to need to do a little work. But if you wanted to do it on a 17x10+35 you probably won't have as much trouble. That's also assuming you have the car low enough to look cool. But I would check the thread. I don't even know if that will fit. I mean it will fit, but I don't know how much you'll have to do to really make it work.

I understand my Wheel choice will depend on ride height, alignment and offset. That's kind of why I want to get the suspension and alignment sorted out and move onto wheels. I listed my thoughts on wheels as to better help determine what I was looking for. As stated I would like as large a tire (contact patch) front and rear as possible. The large wheel fitment thread seems to be full of people looking for a good wheel/tire to hard park on and not really do any track or performance driving.

I'm not sure how I offended you and did not mean to in my first post.

Looks like I'll figure it out myself.

Jeremy
 
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Wiisass

Supramania Contributor
Well it just seemed like you were asking a lot of vague questions without much information behind it and wanted specific answers. I mean it sounded like you had an intent with where you were going, but never really went anywhere with it? If you're looking for a blank slate plan, then that's one thing, but it seemed like you had already made some choices.

I mean if you really want a suggestion, then I would say get NT03's in 18x10.5 + 30 or whatever the lower offset is, at all four corners. Run 285/30/18s all around. Make the body fit the wheels. Buy a suspension setup from me because it will be valved to the car and matched with exactly how the car should be. And then start your alignment at around -1.5-2* camber in the front -1-1.5* camber in the back, a little toe out in the front, a little toe in for the rear and get your front caster even while maintaining the camber settings that the car needs.

With that setup, plus aftermarket suspension arms or at least new bushings. The car will handle awesome, look sweet and just be pretty nice all around. Just get brakes and you can take it out on the road course all day long and then drive it home from the track.



As for your other comments, I'm pretty sure racing gear n1 are just another cheap asian coilover. Can you prove that they aren't? Any kind of data on them or any kind of specs? Or even what are the spring rates, because a lot of the cheap companies like to pick spring rates that really don't work well for the car, especially lowered.

And I don't hate everything from japan, but it's not like that would include the racing gear coilovers. I really doubt they're made in japan. Most likely china or taiwan. And it's not a construction complaint anyway, I'm sure they're strong enough to not break. It's a valving concern. Most JDM and asian dampers use really old piston technology (if you could even call it that) and crappy shim stack design. Not to mention the adjustable ones and there very poor adjustment method design. I mean I took apart a silkroad damper a little while ago, and cheap mountain bike shocks that I had used on an FSAE car in college were built better and more complex than the silkroads. I'm not saying you need all kinds of bells and whistles to make a damper work well. I mean look at Bilstein, a good, simple design that works well, but it's the very good basic design principles that really set it above. The piston is designed well, the shim stacks are thought out. It's not some mess or cheap parts thrown together with some fluid.

But what I meant about the Bilsteins that you have, is that with an off the shelf damper, unless they were really modified or are in a totally different body, will not let you get the car to a proper ride height for racing. You can get the valving right and they can work with all kinds of spring rates if you want to, but they're limited by the size of the shock body.

As for something better, it really depends on what you really want and how much you want to spend. I obviously would recommend one of my setups because I know they work, I know they're valved right and I know that all the specs match the actual car they're going on. But they aren't cheap, at least the ones based on motorsports dampers. You would be looking at $1750-2400 for the more basic motorsports packages.

For off the shelf stuff, again, it depends on what you want. You can run the Bilsteins or even Koni off the shelf stuff with different spring rates and have a soft, dual purpose suspension. It will probably be better on the street than it is on the road course, but it wouldn't suck on the road course. As compared to a custom valved motorsports setup which would be awesome at both, although a little rougher on the street than an off the shelf setup, but still not much at all.

And then there are asian coilovers. I don't like them, I have lots of reasons. They just can't seem to get anything right. They ride rougher than they should, the spring rates aren't always right or even close sometimes. The adjustability sucks and you can never get them dialed in right. But they can look pretty.

Well if you don't want to look at what other people are running, then how do you want the wheels to fit. I ran 9.5+12 with my steering spacers and the car low both at drift events and on the road course and it never rubbed. This was just with rolled fenders, nothing pulled and a not too agressive alignment. I also only had a 235/40/18 on there, and there was room probably for a 245 with no work or a 255 with a little pull. So you can use that for a baseline and then just do some math and you can figure it out.

You should be able to fit the setup I mentioned in my first post if you aren't scared to pull a little more on the fenders. But it might fit with what you have. I'm talking about the +35, not the +18 even though the +18 might work. But again, it depends on alignment and ride height and spring rates. If you have stiff springs, you can go low and not have to worry about the tire hitting the chassis. If not, you have to raise the car.

I would really suggest looking around more. There are lots of threads in this section that talk about coilovers and spring rates and valving and what works on these cars. There is a lot of info on wheel fitment. And even if the person isn't driving their car hard, you can at least see how the wheels fit on the car. Or you can just ignore all of this.
 

Turbo Drifter

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Dec 8, 2005
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Sorry for the delay in response, I have been doing a bunch of looking around and there really is not a lot of people building the MKIII as a track car or at least fitting as much rubber as possible. From some of the math I have done biased on measurements of what I have now, your right on the NT03's with a et30 I should be able to fit 275's all round and maybe 285's in the rear. If anything I will need to pull 1/4in more in the rear and 1/2 in the front. The only problem I really see as a possibility in the front is the lower control arm and Sway bar interference with the wheel at lock. The control arm can be clearance but the sway bar can not really. The option there is a custom from sway bar if that is an issue.

For suspension I have the Bushings on order for arms that still have them. I also have a lead on some JIC front upper arms so with those I should have a good amount of camber in the front.

The breaks are already done, I have AP racing brakes in the front and am looking at MKIV rears at the moment. As it is now there fierce when you nail the brakes.

The front of the car was all stitch welded when the body was redone. I'm looking at getting a S&W roll bar kit and making at least a rear roll bar. I'm sure once I get started it will be a full cage.

Thanks,

Jeremy
 
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IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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Turbo Drifter;1201363 said:
The front of the car was all stick welded when the body was redone. I'm looking at getting a S&W roll bar kit and making at least a rear roll bar. I'm sure once I get started it will be a full cage.

Thanks,

Jeremy

Do you mean "stitch welded"?
 

racerpage

Supra Drifter
Jun 15, 2007
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Turbo Drifter;1202299 said:
Naa that would make it to easy :sarcasm:
My two cents, based on your forum name, you really have to make up your mind what you are going to do with the car. Tim (wiisass) really knows what he is talking about when it comes to these cars. Are you going to be drifting it? If you are, the setup that you really need would not make a good daily or weekend driver. I have tried several setups with my car and ended up, well.... wasting my time and money. I ended up buying a custome Megan setup from a MKIII road course car, special valving and springs, 18kg in front and 14kg in rear. The car drifts awesome now, but still wish I had the TIP setup. As far as wheels and tires, it depends what power you are making. Last year I had about 330 hp and this year I will be making around 600hp with the 2jz I just bought. I ran 17x8.5 in the front and 17x9.5 in the rear with a 2254517 tire the whole way around. 35 offset with 20mm spacers. I tried a 2554017 for a couple events on the rear, and was too grippy. This year I am going with 18x9 and 10.5 in rear, not sure about offsets and tire sizes yet. It's kind of expensive trial and error.
 
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285 will fit np in the rear. Depending on how low your car is going to sit (and offset on wheels), you can fit a 295, especially since your fenders are rolled/pulled.
 

Turbo Drifter

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Dec 8, 2005
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Surrey, BC Canada
racerpage;1208196 said:
My two cents, based on your forum name, you really have to make up your mind what you are going to do with the car. Tim (wiisass) really knows what he is talking about when it comes to these cars. Are you going to be drifting it? If you are, the setup that you really need would not make a good daily or weekend driver. I have tried several setups with my car and ended up, well.... wasting my time and money. I ended up buying a custome Megan setup from a MKIII road course car, special valving and springs, 18kg in front and 14kg in rear. The car drifts awesome now, but still wish I had the TIP setup. As far as wheels and tires, it depends what power you are making. Last year I had about 330 hp and this year I will be making around 600hp with the 2jz I just bought. I ran 17x8.5 in the front and 17x9.5 in the rear with a 2254517 tire the whole way around. 35 offset with 20mm spacers. I tried a 2554017 for a couple events on the rear, and was too grippy. This year I am going with 18x9 and 10.5 in rear, not sure about offsets and tire sizes yet. It's kind of expensive trial and error.

Its an old name (10 years) I did drift at one point but found myself missing the road racing. I also did not like beating on the car to the point that drifting exerted.

For wheels I have measured on another car and my own. I'm going to run 18 x 10.5's in the 30et range as Wiisass said. From the data I have got I do not think there will be a problem running a 295 but am going to start with 275f and 285r.

Suspension is still up in the air, I have this BILSTEIN setup that worked well on the car before the rear struts blew. May just get them rebuilt for now till I have a few other things sorted.

Wiisass what would I be looking at for you to do something with this setup I have now? Do you have a standard starting point for your setups? PM with some options.

IJ looks good, what were the specs on the wheels?