Question about Apexi NEO
- Thread starter SupraTurbo_MK3
- Start date
Well, the Neo adjusts the AFM output, so... Sort of. You can't get rid of it, and I would advise against making large adjustments to the AFM output with stock injectors, but the 7M is known to run very rich, so there's probably room to raise FCO by a bit. I would not do so without supporting data from a wideband. This could be done with a dyno tune, or to have a wideband data logger, but you're begging for trouble raiding FCO without it.
Dan_Gyoba;1957416 said:
Well I'm installing a GT3782 Garrett VNT turbo and I'm aiming for at least 500rwhp so I plan running about 20-25psi and this is my third MK3 so even with everything you mentioned I still have a long way to go and very familiar with most of what I need to do, thanks to guys like you on this site......So I have to get a fuel cut defender or go stand alone is what your saying?
The reason I want to use the Apexi Neo is because I can tune the turbo with it.
Never use the FCD unless you like blowing up engines. Going over 500 RWHP is going to require a standalone. And that's assuming your fuel system, suspension, brakes, driveline, and engine internals are up to the task of putting that kind of power down.SupraTurbo_MK3;1957557 said:
-AM3
Well, it may be possible for 500RWHP without a standalone, but you'll probably spend as much without. FCD is just a bad idea. Period.
With the Neo and a Lexus AFM, you should be able to run 680cc fuel injectors, which is enough fuel to get you there. (The Neo by itself isn't enough, nor is the AFM.) Instead of the Lexus AFM, you could probably use a MAF translator for a GM MAF, or go MAFT-Pro or other MAP solution.
Not sure how the VNT turbo is going to work without substantial electronics to back it up, which probably also means standalone, assuming that there are standalones which understand them. Also, I understand that most variable turbos are diesel applications, and that they don't handle high performance gasoline EGTs all that well yet. That information may be outdated, though.
There is a LOT of work to getting a 3L engine to 500WHP. Doing it wrong is building an expensive boat anchor, doesn't matter if you're starting from a 7M, 2JZ, BMW, or whatever. That kind of power from that displacement means that there's little margin for error, and if you do something wrong, it's going to go boom.
With the Neo and a Lexus AFM, you should be able to run 680cc fuel injectors, which is enough fuel to get you there. (The Neo by itself isn't enough, nor is the AFM.) Instead of the Lexus AFM, you could probably use a MAF translator for a GM MAF, or go MAFT-Pro or other MAP solution.
Not sure how the VNT turbo is going to work without substantial electronics to back it up, which probably also means standalone, assuming that there are standalones which understand them. Also, I understand that most variable turbos are diesel applications, and that they don't handle high performance gasoline EGTs all that well yet. That information may be outdated, though.
There is a LOT of work to getting a 3L engine to 500WHP. Doing it wrong is building an expensive boat anchor, doesn't matter if you're starting from a 7M, 2JZ, BMW, or whatever. That kind of power from that displacement means that there's little margin for error, and if you do something wrong, it's going to go boom.
Dan_Gyoba;1957560 said:
I understand what your saying. I have never built a 500hp engine. But I'm 28 now and have had 3 turbos supras and a turbo talon and an eclipse. All were lightly modded, the usual bolt ons and I have been around 400hp so I know most of what I have to do to the 7M to get it to handle that kind of power and I'm confident with the right fuel set up and electronics the stock internals on this engine would be fine.
Even if I'm 400hp ill be happy as I plan going 2JZ but I have this turbo and a couple thousand to spend so I want to throw it on the 7m for now I just want to at least run about 15psi.........I can wait till the 2JZ to run over 500hp if its going to take a lot to get there with my current 7m.....but it's fresh off of a rebuild, mic'd block deck, MHG, ARP studs and the head is bran new ported and every single part from head up is new from intake manifold down to every valve so I'm very confident in this motor
I have read a lot about this turbo, seen it in gas engines and working great. You just have to take the right steps with it......Only thing I'm worried about is the reliability of this turbo running high boost for a couple years or more.......But if I can keep my engine temps down and I know many ways to do that and since a gas engine burns cleaner I think I can get this set up to work for a few years. I really like how fast this turbo spools and it sounds wicked.
Well I plan on removing the afm so looks like I will have to go standalone, I was assuming I could remove it after installing Apexi neo
SupraTurbo_MK3;1957563 said:
No the Neo works with the AFM, it does not take the place of the AFM. It intercepts the AFM signal and changes it so the factory ECU will pull fuel out or add it depending on what adjustments you are making. Without the AFM signal, a Neo isn't worth much
I was one of those back in 2004 and made over 500rwhp on the factory ECU and a piggyback (original MAP-ECU). Made 540rwhp actually. Totally stock bottom end and head as well. It didn't last very long that way. It made it a few months at that power level and cracked the #1 piston in a number of pieces. That same motor made 440rwhp on a prior turbo setup with MAP-ECU and stock ECU and ran like a bat outta hell for several years that way. But of course I got greedy and wanted more.
The setup I have now is using the Lexus AFM and Apexi Neo and I will stick to 425-450rwhp and leave it at that. I don't want to go the standalone route and just want something safely tuned and not running on the edge of catastrophe. I wouldn't go much further than that with a stock ECU.
Trent;1957630 said:No the Neo works with the AFM, it does not take the place of the AFM. It intercepts the AFM signal and changes it so the factory ECU will pull fuel out or add it depending on what adjustments you are making. Without the AFM signal, a Neo isn't worth much
I was one of those back in 2004 and made over 500rwhp on the factory ECU and a piggyback (original MAP-ECU). Made 540rwhp actually. Totally stock bottom end and head as well. It didn't last very long that way. It made it a few months at that power level and cracked the #1 piston in a number of pieces. That same motor made 440rwhp on a prior turbo setup with MAP-ECU and stock ECU and ran like a bat outta hell for several years that way. But of course I got greedy and wanted more.
The setup I have now is using the Lexus AFM and Apexi Neo and I will stick to 425-450rwhp and leave it at that. I don't want to go the standalone route and just want something safely tuned and not running on the edge of catastrophe. I wouldn't go much further than that with a stock ECU.
Thanks for the info. Sounds like I should play it safe until I go 2JZ. Keep it at 15psi.