Power limits?

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

Hey alls...

I was strongly considering a 2j nat build until today when an 88 coupe with a new motor and a 5spd was dropped in my lap... so since my car needs a new motor... im thinking of just pulling the fresh 7mge out of the 88 along with the 5spd and swapping it all in...

so... i have searched and havnt found anything really... so..

on gte electronics, how much power can the 7mge handle before forged guts are needed?

i know people have pushed the gte to 500+whp without much hassle... and in know the ge will need a compression drop (thick mhg) to hold any kind of boost... so what do you guys think?

-AcId-

 

[7M-KDL]

the first question is: are you talking about putting a fresh 7mge in your current car? where does the question about gte electronics come from? most people say the limit on stock internals is around 500hp.

 

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

i'd heard that the best route to do an na-t on the 7m is to use gte electronics... if im wrong... please correct me...

yes... im now considering swapping in the fresh ge motor and the ge 5spd.... if everything is in good shape... i'll be picking it up friday and pulling the car apart over the next month....

so 500 on ge internals?

-AcId-

 

[7M-KDL]

na-t swaps involve a lot more than people think. the easiest way is to have a donor car that you can take every sensor and piece or wiring off. also, you will need to swap out the pistons if you plan to turbo. the turbo pistons are cupped and lower compression. i guess it would be possibly to put a very thick MHG on to lower the compression instead. if you do not lower the compression, your raise your risk for detonation from what i understand. as far as the power capabilities, the internals should be able to hold the same power. however, you will "never" get 500hp out of the na. the reason never is in parenthesis is because it can be done i suppose, it would just be a waste of time and money, going turbo would be cheaper.

 

[IJ.]

Personally I'd go 2JNa-t and use 7M Gte electronics to keep the costs down.

 

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

well... i would... or may later down the road... but as it stands... i currently have a basically free rebuilt 7mge... and my car is in need of a motor either way... so the 7m is going in it......

i was considering boosting it down the road... it is a dd so nothing radical but somewhere in the neighborhood of 400-450whp and my thoughts on it where if i dropped compression (either using a thick mhg like most do with the 2jz nat builds... or gte pistons...) and using gte electronics (basically a gte swap without the motor...) which would let me use gte tuning methods... and doing a custom turbo setup using something like a gt30 or larger (i'd do all the fab work...)

i'd build a simular turbo setup if i went 2j also... so its not like i'd be spending any more money... and since i have this motor... i figured i might as well use it...

im a little boost hungry since my focus has been parked... and eventually... i'd like to go 2j but until then, i figured i could use what ive got, plus gte stuff is pretty hard to come by around here

basically... I wanted to know if 400-450whp would be safe with a 7mge bottom end...

-AcId-

 

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

Ive been doing quite a bit of reading and have another set of questions...

on many of the builds ive read over... I dont see many people mentioning upgrading rods and from my understanding, the gte and ge rods are the same as is the crank... so are the pistons the weak point when getting in the 500whp range(as far as the gte goes)? I know the ge pistons are a higher comp. design... but if I only had to replace pistons and not rods as well... that would probably fit my budget...

so... could one use a ge block, crank, and rods but run a set of forged JE or simular pistons (lower comp. obviously) and be reliable in the 450whp - 500whp range?

im liking the idea of building a 7m... and since i'll have a spare in the garage... im thinking about pulling it apart... having the block decked and bored and either running forged pistons on stock rods or going gte internals and shooting for around 450-500whp which from my understanding, is a pretty safe limit with a good tune and proper maintenence. (the last motor i built, aftermarket pistons would not work on oem rods... had to buy both..)

Would this work? Here is a list of what I mean...

-GE Block
-GE Crank
-GE Rods
-Forged Pistons
-MHG of proper thickness
-ARP Head/Main Studs
-ARP Rod Bolts (if using stock rods)
etc.. etc...

Thanks for the insight guys
-AcId-

 

[7M-KDL]

ive heard of a lot of people running forged pistons and stock or shot peened stock rods..dont know what power they are hitting or how reliable it will be. but keep in mind that just because you CAN put 450-500 to the wheels doesnt mean that you are constantly putting that much down. by that logic, reliable is somewhat based on how you run it. any car can be made unreliable if you beat the shit out of the motor all day every day. normal driving, with a capability of higher power(when wanted or needed) should be fine. this info is based off what i have learned from others. maybe someone else knows better than me. sorry if this is confusing.

 

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

no... not confusing at all actually....

the car is a dd/trip taking car... it'll get the occasional highway run... but it wont be at the track every weekend or anything like that... just want it on tap when needed and dont want to have to worry about ejecting a rod/piston through the hood and/or fender....

so... for the time being... let me throw this out there and see if it sounds like im on track....

I'll swap in the fresh ge and run it.... I can design my turbo mani, intercooler piping, and all that other stuff while staying na... strip my current motor to bare block... have it decked/bored and stuffed with forged pistons and reman stock rods using arp hardware... mhg and a light port job on the head.... should support my powergoals correct? I cant go too far with it really because I dont want to grenade the w58 that will be backing it up... so 450ish whp is going to be my limit i believe... perhaps 500... just depends on how much tq the motor is making at that point too... I was told 450ft. lbs with a non puck style clutch would be ok aslong as its not abused....

anyways... thanks for the info
-AcId-

 

[7M-KDL]

i think the w58 will be the weak point(or driveshaft of you retain the stock 2 piece) i have not personally run 500 on stock internals but everyone seems to say that around 500 is the limit. i am in the middle of a build now and my goals are similar to yours. mine should be on the road soon so ill let you know how things go. the only difference is that my car was originally turbo. as i said, the only difference should be the cupped vs not cupped pistons.

 

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

sounds good to me...

thanks for the help
-AcId-

 

[CRE]

400 to 500RWHP on a W58??? It is very unlikely that would last long... even if you baby the hell out of it.

 

[AcIdBuRn02ZTS]

ive read quite a few write ups of people pushing 430-450whp on the w58 without trouble.... one specifically was running 440ish whp and had it on the track several times... using a 6-puck unsprung clutch and didnt have any problems out of it... (has since went with the r154 however... not because of damage... but for piece of mind)

i know its not a solid tranny.... and I very well may build an automatic for it before the turbo setup is finished... but for the time being... that is the plan.

-AcId-