No start

[TomFraser]

I have narrowed down my no start a little bit, right now the only code I have is code 51. (New TPS on the way)

My CPS is hardwired (no frail connector)

I checked TDC with 3/8 extension, line cams up, install T-belt, install CPS according to TSRM

I have fuel pressure, shown by my regulator's gauge.

I have spark (pulled spark plug).

I just did the headgasket and had been driving for about 1 week. I was driving one day, and when I put the throttle down at a normal rate the car ran incredibly rich, and almost stalled. I then came to a stop and it stalled out.

When I attempt to start I get nothing, no stumble, no sign of wanting to start. (just cranking)

Occasionally I will get exhaust notes and an attempt to start, but only for a short time, then back to normal (not sure why this is happening)

Any other things I can check?

Can code 51 cause a total no start?

I'm lost and all I have left is input from more experienced people.

 

[jetjock]

Did you actually see spark? Power to the injectors? Does it start when fuel, carb cleaner, or starting fluid is injected into the manifold?

A 51 will not prevent starting.

 

[TomFraser]

Did you actually see spark? Power to the injectors? Does it start when fuel, carb cleaner, or starting fluid is injected into the manifold?

A 51 will not prevent starting.

Yes, I saw spark,

I will check the injectors right now.

I belive it has gas, but will check if it starts if I spray starting fluid in the intake.

I think I have found the issue however. I tested resistance on the CPS and got 157, 158, and no resistance on the green wire. I belive my CPS is bad, and I will find a replacement. I figured that because I had spark the CPS was good.

BTW: I figure you're the guy to ask, I want to buy a multimeter that will last the rest of my life, and will be a quality multimeter.

I have tried this one out courtesy a friend, and my father who works at Lockheed Martin can have it calibrated free whenever I like.

http://us.fluke.com/fluke/usen/Digital-Multimeters/Fluke-27-II-28-II.htm?PID=56056

any comments, or other suggestions for a multimeter?

 

[89supracrazy]

My cps was the same way. One of the G coils is just used for backup incase the other one fails. You can purchase one if you like but it won't help your start problem.

 

[TomFraser]

My cps was the same way. One of the G coils is just used for backup incase the other one fails. You can purchase one if you like but it won't help your start problem.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=IG&P=16

according to TSRM I should have resistance across all 3, jetjock?

 

[jetjock]

Check to see if it starts when fuel is added. If not check for power at the injectors through the resistor or check for +12 at all three ECU injector terminals with the key on engine off.

That Fluke will be fine as it'll do pretty much everything needed. However I remind you it's simply a tool and like any tool its capabilities are dependent on how well you learn to use it.

Crazy: The other coil is not for backup. That said the ECU can run the engine on either G if push comes to shove. The engine must already be running for it to happen though. It will not run without NE.

Edit: Yes, when referenced to G- and the resistance will vary somewhat with temperature.

 

[89supracrazy]

Like I said the G1 and G2 monitor the crankshaft angle. Read this link. The chart shows at the bottom. The little foot note. If your ne sensor is bad it will not start but if one G sensor is bad it will still start. The tsrm only shows the color code for the ecu side it don' t show the cps side. Show just match it up and make sure it is not your ne sensor.



http://www.cygnusx1.net/Media/Supra/Library/ToyotaTech/h25.pdf

 

[TomFraser]

Check to see if it starts when fuel is added. If not check for power at the injectors through the resistor or check for +12 at all three ECU injector terminals with the key on engine off.

That Fluke will be fine as it'll do pretty much everything needed. However I remind you it's simply a tool and like any tool its capabilities are dependent on how well you learn to use it.

Crazy: The other coil is not for backup. That said the ECU can run the engine on either G if push comes to shove. The engine must already be running for it to happen though. It will not run without NE.

Edit: Yes, when referenced to G- and the resistance will vary somewhat with temperature.

Tested resistor according to:

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=FI&P=111

I got 6 ohms 6 ohms and 3 ohms resistances.

I have 12v at B+ on the resistor, and at the three injector wires from ECU.

Does anyone know what the green wire is? (G or NE) I have spark but I guess if the CPS was messed up it wouldn't be sparking at the right time, that would explain why I sometimes have a stumble and it feels like it wants to start, but most of the time I have just cranking.

 

[jetjock]

Gotta love dealing with people who've learned just enough to be dangerous.

Like I said the G1 and G2 monitor the crankshaft angle....

That's not what you said. You said the other coil is "just used for backup" in case the other one fails, implying the engine normally uses only one coil, which of course is wrong.

You also stated you "had the same problem" as him, implying your engine wouldn't start with a bad G. You then state "you can purchase one if you like but it won't help your start problem". Then you go on to state the engine will start under such conditions. Which is it? And if the engine will start with one G missing why doesn't his? One of us is confused...

As for the link I suggest you read it again. My experience aside I'll also point out that information is nowhere near as specific to the car as what I have.

Tom: Are the injectors pulsing or not?

 

[TomFraser]

Tom: Are the injectors pulsing or not?

Injectors are pulsing

 

[jetjock]

Well, you tell me then. If the engine has compression, correct timing/spark, and fuel is being injected it *has* to run. Verify everything again, including the CPS.

edit: Did it run when you injected fuel? Stop making me drag stuff outta you...

 

[TomFraser]

Well, you tell me then. If the engine has compression, correct timing/spark, and fuel is being injected it *has* to run. Verify everything again, including the CPS...

My CPS failed, one of the wires coming from the CPS has no resistance, I am not sure which one it is. (N or G)

I have spark, and the tach has a signal. If the CPS is broken can I have spark, but at incorrect times?

Does anyone have which color wires from the engine harness go to which color wires at the CPS so I can verify my wiring, and figure out which wire has no resistance?

 

[TomFraser]

Sorry, totally forgot to mention that it does not start when using starting fluid.

My G1 pickup is not working, I have spark, but if one pickup was not working would spark timing be off?

BTW: I'm putting the following because it took me a bit of time to find them, and I want it to be easier for others in case anyone finds this from a search

Pickup = CPS Harness
Ne = Red
G1 = Green
G- = White
G2 = Yellow

Engine Harness >> CPS Harness
blue > > red
red > > green
yellow > > yellow
black > > white

 

[89supracrazy]

That's not what you said. You said the other coil is "just used for backup" in case the other one fails, implying the engine normally uses only one coil, which of course is wrong.

You also stated you "had the same problem" as him, implying your engine wouldn't start with a bad G. You then state "you can purchase one if you like but it won't help your start problem". Then you go on to state the engine will start under such conditions. Which is it? And if the engine will start with one G missing why doesn't his? One of us is confused...

As for the link I suggest you read it again. My experience aside I'll also point out that information is nowhere near as specific to the car as what I have.

JJ. I was not replying to you. You beat me last night before I went to bed. I don't know where you got that I said my car would not crank. I was telling him that I had a bad sensor but I did leave out about the ne sensor in my first post. I have experienced with my other cps that was on my car when I purchased it. I was testing it one day and found that one of the coils was not reading. So I said how is my car still running. Then I read about the two G sensors from the link I posted. It will crank and run off of one G sensor unless the other G sensor ,that is reading resistance is gapped to far out of specs. I purchased one that all sensor read resistance for the simple fact if you are cranking on one G sensor then if that one fells you might as well call a tow truck.


Conclusion: You car will run on one G sensor. If you don't believe me come on down and I'll prove it.

---------- Post added at 04:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 PM ----------

Sorry, totally forgot to mention that it does not start when using starting fluid.

My G1 pickup is not working, I have spark, but if one pickup was not working would spark timing be off?

Ne = Red
G1 = Green
G- = White
G2 = Yellow

Nope. They monitor the crakshaft at 180 degree angle. Somebody will correct me if that is not correct.




Tom: Have you tried to unplug the tps and see what happens. It will not hurt a thing. The computer will take over. Try to start it with the tps unplugged. Mine spring inside the tps got stuck and would not let it go into the rest position. Something to try.

 

[Nick M]

My CPS failed, one of the wires coming from the CPS has no resistance, I am not sure which one it is. (N or G)

If your CPS fails, you will not have spark of fuel injection. I wouldn't worry too much about resistance. It is better to watch voltage over time while cranking the engine. Then you will really know if there is a signal. Toyota in their EFI training book says to use an oscilliscope specifically. The temp spec is 125 ohms to 190 ohms.

I have spark, and the tach has a signal.

Then your CPS is probably working.

The G1 and G2 produce signal near TDC on cylinders 1 and 6 which are companions. That is cylinder identification and position.