New to the 7MGTE + Intro

[Oxedizer]

Hey all,

I introduced myself a few weeks back, I was intending on buying a Silver Turbo, however that was a total pile of shite in the end. I managed to get a much better one for £850, original price was £1650

The car is in great condition, however it will be in the body shop in Feb next year for some very minor rear arch repair.

Other things that I have noticed are:

The BVSV has snapped at some point and been sealed up, as a result the carbon canister has been removed too. The nipple on the TB has been plugged. (I cant for the life of me find the feed line to/from the tank for the CC)

I had to reconnect the oil pressure sender back up as there was no oil pressure reading when I got the car. The water temp sensor has been rewired as it was just hanging there.

All the IC piping has been removed and been inspected and reseated. I did notice that there was a large amount of what appears to be lime scale on the the joins (turbo to join - join to IC and bottom IC feed) I managed to get a kraft knife on the pipe work and scrape it all off.

I checked fault codes on the day of getting the car, these came up;

14
22
24
34

Nothing on the Transmission, nor ABS.

Now I reset the ECU after sorting out the wiring on the OIL sender and Water temp sensor. I presume that fuel cut was hit some time ago, so this was not of main concern, however IGF signal and Air temp signal was. I have grounded the igniter since.

code 14 and 24 have been cleared. Now I am still having trouble with idle and cold starts. I keep checking for codes, but still nothing.

The car cranks straight away but doesn't start on first crank, only 2nd/3rd after pressing the accel to the floor until it starts, and then its lumpy as hell. Under acceleration the car pulls very well and holds boost, with no stalls or misfires. The problems only occurs at idle and at extremely light acceleration. (vacuum I am guessing)

I have checked;

Cold Start Time Switch,
Air Flow Meter
Throttle Position Sensor
Idle Speed Control
Cold Start Injector

They all fit into the parameters according to the TRSM. I have followed every vac line in the engine. I cant find any leaks. The next thing is going to be timing. I will follow the TRSM in setting base timing. I am changing the oil/filter and transmission fluid this weekend.

Spark plugs and leads will be replaced next week, along with a thermostat and coolant. I am sure that the idle trouble will be sorted soon, as EVERYTHING on the car will get replaced... well that is until the problem at hand is solved lol.

I am thinking fuel problems. I can hear the ISC clicking after turning the engine off, I have removed it and powered B1 and B2 while grounding S1,S2,S3,S4 <-- off the top of my head I think that's correct? So I cant see the problem being there as there was movement.

There is spark at the plugs, they have been pulled individually. the Igniter fits into the parameters according to the TRSM.

I am sure its a weak fuel pump, clogged injectors and shite plugs/plug wires. As there are no boost/vac leak that I can see. Once I get my timing gun I will check that too. I will calibrate my TPS some time in the near future, and re wire my Knock sensors. I am going to check my Brake boost lines in a few minutes too.

If you think I have missed anything out let me know. I am running out of thing to test lol. I am always eager to learn (I have only had the car 2 weeks)


Some pictures of the car:

Matt.

 

[IwantMKIII]

Very nice find. I don't have much time so ill keep it short. Regarding the starting.

Check the cold start injector, pull it and clean it. The EGR can gunk it up big time.

Also, putting your foot to the floor is completely USELESS. This is an EFI system.

 

[tlo86]

oooh thats gorgeous everything under the hood can be fixed but that body looks nice.

 

[dumbo]

I would be concerned with code 22, I believe the ECU uses that for various functions. If your certain you have no boost leaks and the turbo is building proper boost, your code 34 points at the AFM/wiring.

Those are the only codes left correct?

 

[jdub]

Considering code 22 is the ECU coolant sensor, yeah the ECU uses that just for "a few" functions

In fact, it's failure is one of the fail-safe functions of the ECU...a coolant temp of 80 deg C is substituted for all ECU calculations. At that temp the CSI acts (time wise) like it would on a warm engine, start-up enrichment is greatly reduced, warm-up enrichment is terminated, and the EFI goes straight into closed loop. That's just the main issues (there's more) and none of them are good for a motor that's started cold.

It's no wonder you're having cold idle problems...suggest you fix the code 22 before you start messing with anything else.

your code 34 points at the AFM/wiring.

Ummmm...code 34 is turbo over pressure...i.e. fuel cut. The only relationship to the AFM is the ECU uses AFM air volume to determine the parameters for a code 34.
Might want to check the book next time before you post

 

[dumbo]

Ummmm...code 34 is turbo over pressure...i.e. fuel cut. The only relationship to the AFM is the ECU uses AFM air volume to determine the parameters for a code 34.
Might want to check the book next time before you post

If he's sure there is no boost leak, and the turbo is putting out 5-6psi(I think thats what the auto tranny WG is set to) and he isn't hitty FC, isn't it possible the AFM "thinks" its seeing more air than it is?

I guess the WG could be opening at a higher pressure than stock too.

What kind of pressure are you seeing at full boost?

 

[jdub]

If he's sure there is no boost leak, and the turbo is putting out 5-6psi(I think thats what the auto tranny WG is set to) and he isn't hitty FC, isn't it possible the AFM "thinks" its seeing more air than it is?

I guess the WG could be opening at a higher pressure than stock too.

What kind of pressure are you seeing at full boost?

A code 34 is what it is..."speculating" that it's the AFM will result in a wild goose chase. Especially saying a code 34 "points" at the AFM when there is a minuscule to zero chance of that happening. The only way the AFM will "see" more air at that psi as read by a stock sensor or a gauge that reads off the manifold is a boost leak...could be a stuck open BOV as well. Just because he removed/cleaned the IC piping does not mean there is no leak...it actually makes me more suspicious there is one.

Assuming that a WG is set to a certain psi is always a bad assumption. Concerning the WG, the PO could have shimmed it or replaced it with a manual tranny one. Bottom line is you don't know.

Assumptions and speculations are just as bad as "I think" or "I heard" in the tech sections. Don't do it.

 

[lewis15498]

A code 34 is what it is..."speculating" that it's the AFM will result in a wild goose chase. Especially saying a code 34 "points" at the AFM when there is a minuscule to zero chance of that happening. The only way the AFM will "see" more air at that psi as read by a stock sensor is a boost leak...could be a stuck open BOV as well. Just because he removed/cleaned the IC piping does not mean there is no leak...it actually makes me more suspicious there is one.

Assuming that a WG is set to a certain psi is always a bad assumption. Concerning the WG, the PO could have shimmed it or replaced it with a manual tranny one. Bottom line is you don't know.

Assumptions and speculations are just as bad as "I think" or "I heard" in the tech sections. Don't do it.

I have 2 factory turbos, when i tested the actuators i found the actuator on one starts to open between 7 and 8 psi, the other doesnt start to open until 11psi. the wastegate was not shimmed. dont know what causes this variable but is definitely there.

 

[Oxedizer]

Thanks for the reply guys.

code 34: The codes where checked on the day I got the car, from what I can see the hose from actuator to turbo housing is newish, so my educated guess would be that this was split, thus causing fuel cut. I have not hit FC since ownership (2 weeks)

code 22: This was fixed too on the day I got the car, it was the wire connecting to the stat housing, if you look in the picture of engine bay to will notice the blue/white wire just hanging. I crimped a female spade connector to it and re attached it. The pictures of the car where taken by the previous owner for advertisement.

code 14: Once the ECU had been reset this code had not come back since. I did ground the Igniter to the battery as another SM member did a write-up about it. This is where I got the idea from. (doubt its helped anything)

code 24: This too, has not come back since the ECU has been reset.

I presume that the PO was working on the car and forgot to connect all these things up and tried to start it... TWICE and then the codes where stored.

I have been working on the car today, I took the antenna out as it was only extending a few inches. I managed to correct the fault by stripping/cleaning and re-assembly. The white ribbed cords end was bend back on itself... Sorted.

I also removed the yellow fog lamp covers, as I prefer white spots. Its been a good day. now I just need to sort this idle trouble out/cold start.

I did manage to check all the plugs and wires, they are all in good condition, however for the price, I am going to get some coppers and some NGK Leads. Its odd that the problem is only there at idle and not under acceleration. At traffic lights, regardless of being cold or at operating temp, there is a lump in the idle, leaving the car is gear whilst holding the brakes, will make the engines revs bounce badly (200rpm-700rpm) Once in neutral the car has a stable idle, however you can still hear and feel the "lop" is it called? it almost sound like a tiny misfire.

I am just about to pull out the cold start injector and crank the engine to see if there is fuel coming out. I will post more later on.




Matt.

 

[jdub]

To clarify: You no longer have a code 22 stored?

Which sensor did you re-wire according to this pic?

 

[Oxedizer]

Correct code 22 is gone.

"Radiator Cooling Fan Sensor Switch"

I am not sure this was effecting the ECU code, however its not come back. The ECU has not been rest since the 2nd day of getting the car. I have travelled probably 300 miles since then.


Matt.

 

[jdub]

Ok...that's not the problem then. Besides being difficult to crank, what exactly is the car doing at idle?

 

[Oxedizer]

Here is my make shift connector until I can get one from Mr T.

Here is a short clip of the car from cold after 3rd time crank.

I did manage to pull out the CSI, well as for it goes with pulling off the fuel source. However it just cranked for about 10 seconds, I then put one of the 10mm bolts back into, so see if it needed to be ground, and I could here a short "hiss" I am guessing it is working?. After reconnecting it, I cranked the engine, here is the vid, I am not touching the accelerator. I will take another short vid of the car idle after this post. Very odd as its idling a lot better. but I can hear a very faint grinding noise from the rear of the car... Fuel pump maybe?

Crappy camera Phone:

PB Video


Matt.

 

[Oxedizer]

Crappy Camera Phone and its raining (typical English weather!)

Here is the first clip, this was the first attempt starting after the previous vid (about 15minute wait - car is still cold)

Vid One

Here is that splutter I was talking about:

Vid Two

Here is a attempt to start the car after a quick two minute drive, I had to blip the throttle one the 3rd and 4th time.

Vid Three

It will keep doing that until I use the throttle to keep the revs up. after about 30 seconds I can drive away. ( Hence why I normally start the car with my foot on the accelerator in the morning )




Matt.

 

[jdub]

Did you clean the ISC valve housing or just remove and test?

There's a check valve under the ISCV...did you clean it or replace?

The PCV system uses an orifice in the TB vs a valve. Is it clear?

 

[Oxedizer]

ISCV was removed and cleaned

As for the check valve... I have not got around to this as yet. I will clean the TB orifice now...

Be back in 1 hour ish with results.

edit: the check valve was checked and cleaned
Matt.

 

[jdub]

One more thing to check...the hot start FP up VSV. Look at this pic:

It's the forward VSV shown in the diagram. A quick test: pull the vac line off the FPR and start to see if it still does the up/down/die.

 

[Oxedizer]

hey jdub,

There wasn't any blockage in the Tb orifice. I also pulled the FPR line off the mani without any effect.

Is there ment to be a lot of vacuum on all of these hoses? there was a bit on the FPR but nothing to shout about. There was not much pressure on the TB orifice either. I can feel a bit, but not much.

Matt.

 

[jdub]

Ok...a couple more of the easy things ruled out.

Check to be sure there are no leaks anywhere on the accordion (turbo intake) hose.

Here's some info on vac readings:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/TechTips/vacuum_gauge_readings.aspx

At this point I would get the car warmed up with a steady 650-700 RPM idle and check timing. You have to jump the diagnostic terminals and set at 10 deg BTDC. When you remove the jumper, timing should advance to >12 deg...usually around 14 deg or so.

The CSI is not going to cause a problem like this...it is only active when the key is in the start position. It can cause an initial hard to start issue, but not an idle problem like your last vid showed.

If timing does not help, it's time to do a fuel pressure test:

http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=FI&P=71

 

[Oxedizer]

Nice one mate. Thank you for your help so far. I will be doing some more tests on the car after work tomorrow. I am just about to get my head down for the night.

Matt.