maftpro is working
- Thread starter malloynx
- Start date
BTW- software version 4.60 is out (doesn't really affect us much...):
http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?t=1781
http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?t=1781
drjonez said:
Thanks, I'll try this one tonight. I keep getting an operation error wich is weird cause the software that came with it works fine. I even dl. it a couple of times to make sure it didn't get corrupt.
quicksilver said:
so what software are you having problems with? tunerpro? did you uninstall the orginal before installing the new one?
drjonez said:
yeah the tunnerpro rt 4.13 was what i'm trying to load. I uninstalled it and once I tried renaming the folder to make sure its not a .dll problem. I got the generic to install on my pc but not on my laptop.
interesting....see what info you can find on fullthrottletech.com. i haven't installed the new version yet, so i can't comment...
drjonez said:
Yeah I was just curious if anyone else has ran into this and if the new version is really that nessary.
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Ok, so no "autotune" but it does offer the option of using my WB 5v output to change the AF ratio as I see fit from idle to redline v/s MAP pressure right?
Then I'd need to datalog the operation, and plug those values into the fuel tables for it to work without my WB in the rare case it stops working...
My goal/thought is to have a piggyback that I can let do the tuning work for AF ratios, 14.7 at cruise, or slightly leaner depending on how my engine responds to say 15:1, 15.2, 15.4 etc. with no load. (let's call it uber fuel economy assuming the coatings will help with the potential of hotter than normal EGT's. I'll watch the EGT gauge which is now going to be mounted in my Ebay exhaust manifold, or the Turbo inlet on the T4 housing.)
And produce 12.5 at medium boost, dropping to a nice safe 12:1 at full tilt with me not having to do more than decide what values to run at what RPMv/sMAP pressure....
Anyone running leaner than 14.7 at no load/cruise?
Anyone suggest different "power" AF ratios? (Basicly have dyno information showing that significant power was found at 11.8 v/s 12 or something of that sort.) Same with the slightly leaner operation, if there is very little fuel saving running leaner than 14.7, then it's not worth the risk of engine damage.
One more question, when the throttle closes, and you want fuel cut, how does the Maft Pro respond when the AF tuning setup is in operation? (Generally I found my car to go LEAN during this period while there is no load, coasting or slowing down using engine braking. I know the TCCS cuts all the fuel except a small amount to just barely keep the engine running) Is the system based on TPS voltage v/s Map then and not RPM v/s MAP/ (I don't know how it's scaled, and I'm wondering how it works if you don't mind.)
Then I'd need to datalog the operation, and plug those values into the fuel tables for it to work without my WB in the rare case it stops working...
My goal/thought is to have a piggyback that I can let do the tuning work for AF ratios, 14.7 at cruise, or slightly leaner depending on how my engine responds to say 15:1, 15.2, 15.4 etc. with no load. (let's call it uber fuel economy assuming the coatings will help with the potential of hotter than normal EGT's. I'll watch the EGT gauge which is now going to be mounted in my Ebay exhaust manifold, or the Turbo inlet on the T4 housing.)
And produce 12.5 at medium boost, dropping to a nice safe 12:1 at full tilt with me not having to do more than decide what values to run at what RPMv/sMAP pressure....
Anyone running leaner than 14.7 at no load/cruise?
Anyone suggest different "power" AF ratios? (Basicly have dyno information showing that significant power was found at 11.8 v/s 12 or something of that sort.) Same with the slightly leaner operation, if there is very little fuel saving running leaner than 14.7, then it's not worth the risk of engine damage.
One more question, when the throttle closes, and you want fuel cut, how does the Maft Pro respond when the AF tuning setup is in operation? (Generally I found my car to go LEAN during this period while there is no load, coasting or slowing down using engine braking. I know the TCCS cuts all the fuel except a small amount to just barely keep the engine running) Is the system based on TPS voltage v/s Map then and not RPM v/s MAP/ (I don't know how it's scaled, and I'm wondering how it works if you don't mind.)
Adjuster said:
yes and no. AFR tracking allows you to specifiy a TPS and/or MAP value above which it starts working. you simply input desired AFR value and the MAFT pro makes whatever corrections necessary to achieve the desired AFR. parameters:
Min TPS - TPS above which the AFR tracking is enabled
Min RPM - RPM above which the AFR tracking is enabled
Min MAP - Manifold pressure above which AFR tracking is enabled
Lean Lim% - The maximum % that the system will lean out to maintain the desired A/F
Rich Lim% - The maximum % that the system will richen up to maintain the desired A/F
Gain - The speed that the system will try to maintain the desired A/F ratio
AFR 2000R ... AFR 8000R Desired A/F Ratio at each RPM from 2000 RPM to 8000
Adjuster said:
precisely.
Adjuster said:
you'll be hard pressed to make AFR tracking work @ cruise as you can really only have 1 desired AFR at a given RPM point.
Adjuster said:
a number of people are running 16:1+ or so @ cruise on standalone....
there isn't 1 "power" AFR, that will totally depend on the car/setup/fuel.
Adjuster said:
see listed parameters above.
FYI- below 2500 or so, the ECU cuts ALL fuel on decel....
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Ok, yesterday while driving along on cruise control, at 72mph, the throttle was at 16% and about 3400rpm IIRC. (I did not write it down, but would if I was setting up a table, and should before I remove the Eman/E-01 for easy data collection.)
Does the Maft Pro show RPM? (or can it?)
What parameters can you display?
I have not tried the software yet, what's it like, and does anyone have some screen shots they could post? I figure I'd like to do 99% of the tuning with a laptop hooked up for easy data entry, get the basics entered into the system so it's very close, and then leave the AF tracking on all the time to keep it where I want it in closed loop even though the changes would be minimal since the "base" is filled in already? (Those figures will be set by a datalog on the computer of the AF tracking during normal use.. as already discussed.)
You note that I can choose the AF at various RPM points from 2000 to 8000rpm. How many points of change are there? (I would not guess 6000, but something like every 500rpm would be nice.)
In another post you noted that fuel cut by the TCCS is not only dependant on Air flow meter hertz rate, but also other factors. What are the other factors? (I have my Hz rate capped at 1450hz, but still see FC, so I must have something else out of specs, or I'm missing something else.)
I do not want to have FC issues with the Maft Pro, but I also do not want to run lean, ever. (Which is why I like the idea of leaving the AF tracking on all the time, and leaving the "rich" change in a high % so it can add as much fuel as needed to maintain a safe AF under high boost conditions.) The Maft Pro should be able to do this right?
One more thing is kicking around in my head.
The stock TCCS is closed loop from idle to somewhere near WOT right? (using the stock NB 02 sensor to keep a 14.7:1 AF ratio most of the time. I set my base fuel pressure so the Vf voltage is 2.5v or close to that so the TCCS is in the middle of the road setting wise so to speak. Then the WOT fuel tables are "set" based on what Toyota designed into the computer, and they are generally on the rich side. (So we have to remove fuel most of the time, but that is safe v/s adding fuel all the time.)
The Maft Pro takes this "stock" TCCS data, and using a WB 02, changes the fuel trim all the time over 2000rpm till 8000rpm to get the programed AF ratio we determine, but it makes no permenent reccord of these changes as it's a closed loop setup. (We can datalog and use this data to build tables, but untill we do this, nothing is retained.) Ok, that's fine.
You note that AF tracking is dependent on TPS signal and/or MAP signal, and then we determine the AF based on RPM vs those signals. (So, is this two axis, or three? Can we say at a TPS signal of 16% AND rpm of 3500 AND map pressure of -06psi the AF is 16:1, but at TPS signal of 16% and RPM of 3500 and presure of 10psi, AF is 12.5:1? I realize that's very unlikely, but there are times comming off, or building boost that the engine might see boost at low TPS signal, and lower RPM, and I don't want to run lean during those very brief periods. I guess what I'm asking is can we design a 3 axis map based on MAP, RPM and TPS? (To achieve AF's of course at those various points based on pressure mostly, higher PSI has richer AF's v/s lower pressure having the leaner operation for fuel economy.)
Sorry about the ramble, but I'm confused.
Another question. I'm going to change from 550cc injectors and a single Walbro to 720cc injectors and add another Walbro to the tank so I have plenty of fuel. Unlike the 550/Lexus mod, I don't know if I'll be able to tune the Vf to 2.5v on fuel pressure alone, so what setting do you advise for larger injectors with the Maft Pro? (Your running larger injectors on your 7MGTE with the Maft Pro, but you have the idle speed turned up to bypass the ISC right? I'd like to keep the ISC if possible. Do I just tune for idle based on WB readings so it's not leaned out and stalling, and then datalog the AF tracking and imput those values, or is there another route? (Especially since my idle is about 950 when cold, and 750 when hot right now. It goes up about 100rpm when the AC is turned on. It also varies based on power loads, if the fan is on, or rear defogger is on, the idle comes up. I do not have the idle up air lines for the power steering anymore however.)
If AF tracking does not come into play untill 2000rpm, setting the idle is going to depend on the base fuel tune right? (And with larger injectors, I'm guessing some fuel being pulled right off idle to get this car to run right.)
Ok, last question for tonight, I promise.
We can datalog WB readings right? (Will make it easy to see what's going on, and add/delete, or is there no need since the AF tracking will provide what amounts of fuel are being added or deleted to what the TCCS "see's" in real time..
Thanks very much Dr. J, I'm sure I'm not the only one with these questions. (Or I am the only one with these questions, and I need to take a chill pill? LOL)
Does the Maft Pro show RPM? (or can it?)
What parameters can you display?
I have not tried the software yet, what's it like, and does anyone have some screen shots they could post? I figure I'd like to do 99% of the tuning with a laptop hooked up for easy data entry, get the basics entered into the system so it's very close, and then leave the AF tracking on all the time to keep it where I want it in closed loop even though the changes would be minimal since the "base" is filled in already? (Those figures will be set by a datalog on the computer of the AF tracking during normal use.. as already discussed.)
You note that I can choose the AF at various RPM points from 2000 to 8000rpm. How many points of change are there? (I would not guess 6000, but something like every 500rpm would be nice.)
In another post you noted that fuel cut by the TCCS is not only dependant on Air flow meter hertz rate, but also other factors. What are the other factors? (I have my Hz rate capped at 1450hz, but still see FC, so I must have something else out of specs, or I'm missing something else.)
I do not want to have FC issues with the Maft Pro, but I also do not want to run lean, ever. (Which is why I like the idea of leaving the AF tracking on all the time, and leaving the "rich" change in a high % so it can add as much fuel as needed to maintain a safe AF under high boost conditions.) The Maft Pro should be able to do this right?
One more thing is kicking around in my head.
The stock TCCS is closed loop from idle to somewhere near WOT right? (using the stock NB 02 sensor to keep a 14.7:1 AF ratio most of the time. I set my base fuel pressure so the Vf voltage is 2.5v or close to that so the TCCS is in the middle of the road setting wise so to speak. Then the WOT fuel tables are "set" based on what Toyota designed into the computer, and they are generally on the rich side. (So we have to remove fuel most of the time, but that is safe v/s adding fuel all the time.)
The Maft Pro takes this "stock" TCCS data, and using a WB 02, changes the fuel trim all the time over 2000rpm till 8000rpm to get the programed AF ratio we determine, but it makes no permenent reccord of these changes as it's a closed loop setup. (We can datalog and use this data to build tables, but untill we do this, nothing is retained.) Ok, that's fine.
You note that AF tracking is dependent on TPS signal and/or MAP signal, and then we determine the AF based on RPM vs those signals. (So, is this two axis, or three? Can we say at a TPS signal of 16% AND rpm of 3500 AND map pressure of -06psi the AF is 16:1, but at TPS signal of 16% and RPM of 3500 and presure of 10psi, AF is 12.5:1? I realize that's very unlikely, but there are times comming off, or building boost that the engine might see boost at low TPS signal, and lower RPM, and I don't want to run lean during those very brief periods. I guess what I'm asking is can we design a 3 axis map based on MAP, RPM and TPS? (To achieve AF's of course at those various points based on pressure mostly, higher PSI has richer AF's v/s lower pressure having the leaner operation for fuel economy.)
Sorry about the ramble, but I'm confused.
Another question. I'm going to change from 550cc injectors and a single Walbro to 720cc injectors and add another Walbro to the tank so I have plenty of fuel. Unlike the 550/Lexus mod, I don't know if I'll be able to tune the Vf to 2.5v on fuel pressure alone, so what setting do you advise for larger injectors with the Maft Pro? (Your running larger injectors on your 7MGTE with the Maft Pro, but you have the idle speed turned up to bypass the ISC right? I'd like to keep the ISC if possible. Do I just tune for idle based on WB readings so it's not leaned out and stalling, and then datalog the AF tracking and imput those values, or is there another route? (Especially since my idle is about 950 when cold, and 750 when hot right now. It goes up about 100rpm when the AC is turned on. It also varies based on power loads, if the fan is on, or rear defogger is on, the idle comes up. I do not have the idle up air lines for the power steering anymore however.)
If AF tracking does not come into play untill 2000rpm, setting the idle is going to depend on the base fuel tune right? (And with larger injectors, I'm guessing some fuel being pulled right off idle to get this car to run right.)
Ok, last question for tonight, I promise.
We can datalog WB readings right? (Will make it easy to see what's going on, and add/delete, or is there no need since the AF tracking will provide what amounts of fuel are being added or deleted to what the TCCS "see's" in real time..
Thanks very much Dr. J, I'm sure I'm not the only one with these questions. (Or I am the only one with these questions, and I need to take a chill pill? LOL)
Adjuster said:
Your best bet is to d/l the new manual (p.17) and check it out there. suffice to say you can monitor ANYTHING- RPM, % change, Vf, etc.
Adjuster said:
it's a bit quirky. Again, d/l the manual (p.23) and the software and play w/it.
Adjuster said:
Don’t know offhand, IIRC it’s every 1k RPM.
Adjuster said:
No idea. It is RPM and load dependent. I have yet to determine what all is involved….
Adjuster said:
No. you shouldn’t rely on any one device to “save” you. A proper tune is a much better idea.
If you don’t want FCO issues, you should look into standalone…
Adjuster said:
Again, take a look @ the manual. AFR tracking isn’t really based on TPS or MAP, those are only values above which it functions. Here’s a breakdown (again?) of the AFR tracking paratmeters:
Min TPS - TPS above which the AFR tracking is enabled (think of this as a switch- above XX TPS, AFR tracking is on)
Min RPM - RPM above which the AFR tracking is enabled (think of this as a switch- above XX RPM, AFR tracking is on)
Min MAP - Manifold pressure above which AFR tracking is enabled (think of this as a switch- above XX MAP, AFR tracking is on)
Lean Lim% - The maximum % that the system will lean out to maintain the desired A/F
Rich Lim% - The maximum % that the system will richen up to maintain the desired A/F
Gain - The speed that the system will try to maintain the desired A/F ratio
AFR 2000R ... AFR 8000R Desired A/F Ratio at each RPM from 2000 RPM to 8000
The only graph you can really draw is a 2 axis based off of RPM- i.e. using the AFR 2000R – AFR 8000R on the x axis and AFR on the y axis….
It really sounds like you are looking for something with great complexity than any piggybacks (other than the eman ult) offer. I suggest looking into the eman ultimate or standalone…..
Adjuster said:
Start by turning down FP such that the car is driveable. Then tune WOT for desired max power, then focus on driveability and lastly idle. Unfortunately, w/inj that big and a piggyback, you’ll probably have to make some concessions somewhere- idle? Closed loop? Driveability?
I’ll say it again- it really sounds like you’re looking for it all- large inj, stock driveability, all “extra” features. In my book that sounds like you need to invest in a standalone and A LOT of professional tuning….from my exp, you can rarely have your cake and eat it too….
Adjuster said:
AFR tracking is meant for open loop function only, not to fight the ECU closed loop.
Idle is closed loop, you’ll need to balance fuel press and AFM correction to keep Vf happy….
Adjuster said:Ok, last question for tonight, I promise.
We can datalog WB readings right? (Will make it easy to see what's going on, and add/delete, or is there no need since the AF tracking will provide what amounts of fuel are being added or deleted to what the TCCS "see's" in real time..
Of course. You can datalog any of the MAFT pro’s listed parameters (p.17 of new manual).
Adjuster said:
Heh. Np. Sorry if I sound a bit “down” on the MAFT pro for your application, I would rather see you get what’s right for you than make a few $$. In my book, if you’re looking for much over 500rwhp it’s time to start thinking about a standalone. Will piggybacks work? Sure. Will they be the best option? Probably not.
Hey folks,
I have read that some of you are having issues with the latest version of TunerPro RT. I little while ago I helped another board member with a similar issue. Here is a link on the FullThrottle site which talks about the same problem. In my reply to that post I wrote down the steps and attached a file that should get you up and running with the TunerPro RT program....Enjoy!
http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?p=9674#post9674
I have read that some of you are having issues with the latest version of TunerPro RT. I little while ago I helped another board member with a similar issue. Here is a link on the FullThrottle site which talks about the same problem. In my reply to that post I wrote down the steps and attached a file that should get you up and running with the TunerPro RT program....Enjoy!
http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?p=9674#post9674
For those of you having stumbling issues when hitting the gas, I changed my Throttle body size to 15 and it made a big differance. I also had better luck messing with the MAP enrich rather than the TPS enrich. I set my TPS enrich to 0 and the mapenrich is at .21 (if memory serves me right).
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drjonez said:
I have asked the same question in the past numerous times, especially prior to buying the Maft pro but the answer back then was always afirmative. That was the main reason that I bought the Maft Pro for; to overcome FCO... 
yannis-supras said:
If you have big enough injectors for the power you are making you will not have any fuel cut issues (with a maft).
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I am running 720's also.
Contrary to popular belief I have been driving the car with the stock ECU for about 3000 miles. The only issues I ahve is it goes pig rich at WOT and my BOV vents to atmosphere so it is also rich between shifts. Closed loop operation always stays very close to 14.7.
I dont see any reason to use the MAFT Pro to tune for drivability. I set my FPR to the lowest it could go and still idle good (which was like 28psi with vac connected) and hopefully that will get me in tunable range at WOT.
Contrary to popular belief I have been driving the car with the stock ECU for about 3000 miles. The only issues I ahve is it goes pig rich at WOT and my BOV vents to atmosphere so it is also rich between shifts. Closed loop operation always stays very close to 14.7.
I dont see any reason to use the MAFT Pro to tune for drivability. I set my FPR to the lowest it could go and still idle good (which was like 28psi with vac connected) and hopefully that will get me in tunable range at WOT.
Adjuster said:
yannis-supras said:
That sounds fine, but you are still hitting fuel cut? Are you sure it is not something else causing your problem?
No, no I still haven't fitted mine, my engine is nor even running yet :icon_bigg I hopw I will be ready to check it out in a month or so. I'm just checking everyone else's experiences so far so that I will be prepared.bigaaron said:
So you're saying that with that size of injectors FCO shouldn't be a problem then?