Lisle 36200 Keeper Installer HELP!!

[theKnifeArtist]

okay, so i bought this tool after some people on here recommended it. i was trying to get help on my last valve tool thread but i didnt get help so i thought making a new thread would help. i really need to figure this out asap. i tried loading the keepers in the tool like the instructions say but they wont stay in the spring loaded spot, and i tryed what this video says, but the keepers never fit like they're supposed to in the keeper grooves. i am using new 975 Comp Cams Valve Springs, so they are a little tighter, is that my problem? it seems like i compress down as much as could. what am i doing wrong? how the hell do you use this?
http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/lis36200.html

http://www.toyotool.com/valvemaster.htm

 

[Jaguar_5]

Hahaha, give it one days rest, and try it tomorrow That's what I did with the same springs and tool, and it worked for me!

Make sure your head is set down on something very stable, and of course support it from the edges so you don't bend any valves, careful not to scratch the surface! You will also need something to block the valves from moving, I bundled up some rope and propped the valves up on that, 1 cyl at a time.

Those upgraded springs are alot harder to install than stock, I recommend doing a couple of stockers for practice. I only weigh 145lbs so i had to stand above the head so i could put all my weight into it. I set the spring firmly in the retainer in the head, put the upper retainer on, set the two keepers inside, now the trick is touch the tip of the tool centered on the two keepers, make sure you've got it lined up straight with the valvestem, and just do it quick, all at once, push the tool firmly if you do it right you'll feel the vakvesttem push the tool tip in, then keep pushing and you'll get a click as the keepers fall into place

 

[supraguy@aol]

Are both the Lisle tool and the valvemaster identical? Which one do you have, guys?

 

[theKnifeArtist]

i dont know if they are, im using the Lisle one.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

man i can't even get it together with the stock springs in. this is fucking hard, im gonna keep trying until i get it together tho

and no its not the same tool as the video

 

[theKnifeArtist]

oh man. i gotta restrain myself from killing myself right now. this is fucking terrible. i remember IJ saying to becareful not to scratch up those bucket bores. i wasnt careful enough and scratched it up! now the bucket wont even slide in! oh FUCK! does this really mean i need a new head? this is terrible!:cry: my friend says i can clean that up with emera cloth and make it still usable? think it'd work?

 

[IJ.]

I gave my advice in one of your many threads on this topic but you chose to ignore it and see what happens.......

Fuck dude I don't talk just cos I like my own voice I post based on 30+ years of experience not 10 minutes of reading Net threads.

If I say something is a bad idea it's cos it is and I always take time to explain my reasoning.

Do you have a local machine shop?

Take it there and have em install the springs as they have the correct gear and it'll only take em 20 minutes so shouldn't cost much.

 

[Jaguar_5]

Yikes!

Told you a days rest might be a good idea

I'll let the experts answer this one

<edit, IJ. beat me to it>

 

[supraguy@aol]

If you're lucky, you can use a brake cylinder hone to smooth out/ polish those lifter bores.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

yeah i made a big mistake and paying for it. i've been kicking myself in the ass for it ever since it happened. I totally understand IJ, i didn't listen and so i learn and its gonna cost me. so i pretty much already have a new head that im ready to buy. my questions is, will i need all new valves and those bucket things?
so, what if i use a hone of something and somehow get the lifter bore to a condition that that bucket thing slides in freely, would that make it usable? i'm not counting on it happening, but i'm just asking.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

anyone know any of the answers to those questions?

 

[supraguy@aol]

A brake cylinder hone is a small 3-prong drill bit, with 3 stones on those prongs which are spring-loaded to press outward. they are identical(yet smaller) to some cylinder hones, used to create the cross-hatching on cylinder walls. Anyway, if the gouge on the bucket wall can be smoothed out- even if the mark doesn't disappear completely, it may provide a viable finish for use.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

im bringing my head to school tommorrow and a teacher is gonna look at it and try to hone it out for me. i'm not counting on it, but everyones tellin' me i'm overreacting. it doesnt look as bad as it does in the closeup picture, i guess thats why people are tellin me its fixable. we'll see.

 

[Silvermk2]

The better tool to do the valve installation is this one;

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/sch91400.html

You can then use a tight fitting 1/4" socket in the push down part. Then just let up on the handle while pushing down in the socket.

I wouldn't use a hone on that head either. I'd rework it by hand just to remove high spots locally. If you hone it it'll screw the diameter up.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

what would you say to rework it with? emery cloth? my instructor's gonna look at it, he'll make a judgement.
thanks for the tool link but one..im not buyin a 3rd valve tool, and two...im givin it to the machine shop to install the valves like i should of in the first place.

 

[IJ.]

If I was trying to fix the head I wouldn't use a Hone I'd just work on the Gouge area with a machinists scraper.....

By the Time the hone spins around going DOK DOK DOK over the gouge and finally stops DOKKING away you'll have removed far too much material from the Diamater and the Bucket will fit like a Dick in a rubber Gumboot....

 

[Zach]

Something similar to that happened to me with a 500ci Caddy motor. The lifters were seized and one of the lifter bores got gouged just a little bit. Just work down the high spot with some emery cloth. Like IJ said, using a hone will wear down the whole bore and cause your shim bucket to fit like crap.

 

[theKnifeArtist]

gotcha, i'll be sure to point it out to my instructor, thanks

 

[theKnifeArtist]

so my instructor seemed to have fixed it for me. basically he took a flower shaped scotch brite pad thing on a head porting drill tool and gave it one pass. so basically he polished it. the lifter bucket fits right in to the bore and i don't feel any excess side to side play. he said it will be fine. i guess i got really lucky.

i called the machine shop thats did my resurfacing to put my valves in. they want 30 for 1/2 hour and 60 if it takes em an hour. think it'll take more than 30 min?

 

[jdub]

I'd say at least an hour...think about it...24 valves in 30 min? Have to be one fast mofo to do that