Driveline Vibration In All Gears...

[IBoughtASupra]

Ok, So I am tracking down an issue on my Supra that is giving me a hard time. Through building my car, I rebuilt the R154, new snychros, bearings and seals.

Now, I was driving the car and everything seemed fine. I drove for about 3-4 miles at about 40MPH, and then a vibration started. It sound like a gears were being shredded. I came to a stop, put the car in neutral and the noise went away. Started to accelerate and the noise was there and heard much louder in fourth gear.

The noise does not start right away, if I go and start driving the car sitting overnight, no noise, after a few miles, then it starts. This is just not a one time thing, it happens like this EVERYTIME.

I had the car on the lift, ran it in 4th gear at 40MPH and it was making a "clunk" kind of noise. I know it is not the best way to describe it but imagine hitting two hammers together, but the sound has a little deeper tone.

Anyone know the bearing numbers needed to rebuild an LSD diff? I have another diff sitting here but that one was run without oil, so I am guessing it would need clutch packs too?


I have been talking to Ian and Joliroger, and here is what I have done based on there advice.

-Driveahaft Carrier Checked, Video sent to Ian to show the amount of play. Looked normal.

-Carrier Spacers between chassis are installed properly now, was on the bolt side not up against the chassis like it should be.

-LSD has oil and additive, previous owner used the Ford oil additive.

-Once again, the vibration noise only appears after the car is driven a couple of miles, so I assume after the oil in the diff or gearbox gets thinner? Just a thought.

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Anyone?

 

[hvyman]

You have a stethescope to pinpoint where the noise is coming from?

 

[IBoughtASupra]

When I used it, I heard noises all over the place, from the diff mostly. It seems as there are noises in there as it is running. Not a whine, but a clank and it's definately not the exhaust as it's held up by a lot of hangers.

I will have to check the backlash.

Here is the weird part, it never does it when the car is cold. I have to drive a couple miles to get the noise to appear and this happens everytime. Drive it from a rest overnight, no noise, put 2-3 miles on it at 40MPH, noise appears.

This leads me to think two things, the oil is getting thinner as the diff heats up and is not lubricating well thus causing the excessive play between parts?


I am using Redline MT-90 in the gearbox. The diff has fluid that was put in by the previous owner. Driveshaft, center bearing and U-Joints are all fine, all are inline. Spacers are set right on the carrier bearing to hold it at the right distance between it and the chassis.

 

[hvyman]

Oil always gets thinner with heat. That's how it works. It's like honey. Cold it barely moves. Heat it up and it pours like water.

Try changing the fluid in the trans and diff and put a strainer under it to see what cones out.

 

[Poodles]

Well, considering you don't know what's in the diff, it could be low or dry for all we know. Start with changing the diff oil.

 

[IBoughtASupra]

I am going to the shop to do that right now. I will see what comes out, if anything.

What confuses me is that why would it make noise hot and not cold? I know for sure, the C-clips that went in on each shafts were good and did not need any massaging. They were tight and each bearing/gears were pressed and checked to have correct clearances according to the TSRM.

 

[Poodles]

It's a multiweight oil, and the parts of the oil that make it multiweight are what break down from sheering. If it's never been changed...

 

[IJ.]

If there's no oil in it there's a chance when it's hot it's grinding itself into paste...

Seriously Andy you have access to a lift WTF didn't you check that first... :nono:
(my fault for assuming you had I guess...)

 

[IBoughtASupra]

It's a multiweight oil, and the parts of the oil that make it multiweight are what break down from sheering. If it's never been changed...

Thanks for the explanation Poodles, it makes sense now.

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Ian, I do have access to our lift. I checked the doff oil, not the gearbox oil. I filled the gearbox oil myself after I rebuilt it. I used 3 and close to a half of a next bottle. I used Redline MT-90 as well.

I had to drop the gearbox multiple times due to the washers on the hub not being set in the correct order, thanks Poodles for the help on that. Each time, the oil was drained and since it had no miles on it, I just reused it. Each time, I drained the oil to drop the R154x I looked for any shavings as the car was still driven in and out of the shop each morning and night.

When I loosened the fill port on the diff, oil did come out. Just got back from a test drive to let the mechanic hear it and he thinks it is the gearbox.

When you are sitting in idle, you hear a constant whirring sound, press the clutch and it goes away but to be sure, he want us to go on the highway for a long distance. I am going to change the oil in both the gearbox and transmission and see.

 

[IJ.]

Ian, I do have access to our lift. I checked the doff oil, not the gearbox oil. I filled the gearbox oil myself after I rebuilt it. I used 3 and close to a half of a next bottle. I used Redline MT-90 as well.

I had to drop the gearbox multiple times due to the washers on the hub not being set in the correct order, thanks Poodles for the help on that. Each time, the oil was drained and since it had no miles on it, I just reused it. Each time, I drained the oil to drop the R154x I looked for any shavings as the car was still driven in and out of the shop each morning and night.

When I loosened the fill port on the diff, oil did come out. Just got back from a test drive to let the mechanic hear it and he thinks it is the gearbox.

When you are sitting in idle, you hear a constant whirring sound, press the clutch and it goes away but to be sure, he want us to go on the highway for a long distance. I am going to change the oil in both the gearbox and transmission and see.

I ASKED you that in PM's and you said no it made no difference clutch in or out..... ARGHHHHHHHH :runaway:

Symptoms of a failing bearing/snout between the Input Shaft and the Main shaft

 

[IBoughtASupra]

My bad Ian. I probably misunderstood.

Ok, so you said that it is a failing bearing between the input shaft and the main shaft. The main shaft is the one where the driveshaft goes onto at the back, correct?

With that said, I know that I put a new bearing on the input shaft as it is separate from the main shaft, right? Mechanic thinks it could be the tailshaft bearing.

There are three
See the photo below about the input shaft.

 

[hvyman]

Mine knocks from the front bearing on the trans. Or atleast one bearing on the input shaft. Has play goes away with clutch pressed and after like 1200-1500 rpm tho.

 

[IJ.]

The Needle roller inside the Input shaft.

These gearboxes with age wear through the Case Hardening on the snout of the Mainshaft (Yes the BIG one that goes from the tailshaft up to the Input shaft)

The symptoms you descibe are exactly what happens as this bearing fails and why I asked the question about 135 PM's ago

As the bearing wears the mainshaft can Sag down onto the Cluster Gear making the noise worse and I can see this would increase as the Oil thins when hot.

The reason it stops when you push the clutch is the Input and Cluster stop turning so no noise.

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Well the input shaft has needle bearings on the inside of it. So you think these went bad!?

That sucks, I bought them new. I hope I don't need a new main shaft as Toyota wants a bank account for that.

 

[IJ.]

Well the input shaft has needle bearings on the inside of it. So you think these went bad!?

That sucks, I bought them new. I hope I don't need a new main shaft as Toyota wants a bank account for that.

Q: What's the difference between a Andy and a computer?









































A: You only have to punch information into a computer once.

 

[hvyman]

The Needle roller inside the Input shaft.

These gearboxes with age wear through the Case Hardening on the snout of the Mainshaft (Yes the BIG one that goes from the tailshaft up to the Input shaft)

The symptoms you descibe are exactly what happens as this bearing fails and why I asked the question about 135 PM's ago

As the bearing wears the mainshaft can Sag down onto the Cluster Gear making the noise worse and I can see this would increase as the Oil thins when hot.

The reason it stops when you push the clutch is the Input and Cluster stop turning so no noise.

New ebarings wouldnt fix. New or good used main shaft would.

262 from champion.

 

[IBoughtASupra]

Q: What's the difference between a Andy and a computer?









































A: You only have to punch information into a computer once.

-__- might as well look for a good used mainshaft/R154.

 

[hvyman]

If most of the stuff in the trans is new or good used might be more worth it to just pony up for the new one if your keeping the car. Be a lot tighter and most people dont exactly have one sitting on the shelf. And if you buy another trans you will still have 1 trans that has a problem. And the shaft is cheaper than what most r154's go for in good condition.