Domestic Spying FTW
- Thread starter Nick M
- Start date
....And everyone thought bush was nutz. There is a reason for domestic spying.....the point now has been proven! Kbye now.Nick M said:
Another fruit of the politically correct refusal to ask Muslim applicants for airport jobs hard questions about their views on jihad and Sharia. Of course, honest answers could not be expected; but if officials were even aware of the nature of jihad preaching and recruitment, they could watch for some of the danger signs.
The obvious thing to do, of course, is to bar Muslims from sensitive positions until Western Muslim communities can produce some reliable assurance that those who take such positions will not be jihadists. But that will never happen, not least because Western authorities calling for it would fold in the face of the Muslim indignation that would follow such a declaration. But in light of the fact that Muslims themselves have made no organized attempt to expel jihadists or teach against their ideology in mosques in Western countries, it's an entirely reasonable measure.
Robert Spencer - founder of jihadwatch.org
The obvious thing to do, of course, is to bar Muslims from sensitive positions until Western Muslim communities can produce some reliable assurance that those who take such positions will not be jihadists. But that will never happen, not least because Western authorities calling for it would fold in the face of the Muslim indignation that would follow such a declaration. But in light of the fact that Muslims themselves have made no organized attempt to expel jihadists or teach against their ideology in mosques in Western countries, it's an entirely reasonable measure.
Robert Spencer - founder of jihadwatch.org
I'm just waiting to see how the new anti-war democratic party (their move from the center farther left) spins this. They've already blamed Bush and Blair and said if it weren't for those two this (the foiled plot) never would've happened...
Silly silly liberals.
Silly silly liberals.
Don't hate on liberals.
We need them.
Everyone needs a good laugh once in a while...
But yeah, seriously, we all know the only reason libs didn't like this obvious safety measure was they were afraid that under-the-table biz they do would be uncovered. When you're in a serious situation like this, you need such measures for the protection of America. Duh...
We need them.
Everyone needs a good laugh once in a while...
But yeah, seriously, we all know the only reason libs didn't like this obvious safety measure was they were afraid that under-the-table biz they do would be uncovered. When you're in a serious situation like this, you need such measures for the protection of America. Duh...
... And you know that if this wasn't uncovered, they would probably try and say that Bush planned it so that it would look like he had a just reason for hids invasions. I know there are quite a few liberals on this site, but come on, at least support the man making the descisions for our country, if i were anyother person the whole 9/11 thing would have not been handled the way it should have and things would have gotten worse. We just need to go out in the desert and turn the whole place into a glass factory wherever these "camps" are.
^^Anyone care to imagine what would have happened if Gore had been in office in 9-11?
Yikes! Scary thought!
Yikes! Scary thought!
Allan_MA70 said:
stay on topic Allan, no need to get the thread locked due to an off topic comment....
CTsupra
Supramania Contributor
Yup, domestic spying is FTW. Just as long as the channel doesn't suddenly change and I notice that I'm staring at myself, we're good!
Allan_MA70 said:
I have a forum that is only politics and religion. Because, after the Supra and football, what else is there?
I am glad they discovered the plot ahead of time instead of after. I have no problem with giving up a bit of privacy to help stop crap like that from occuring.
If anybody is unsure, after Brits thought something was up, we helped them with NSA surveilence, confirming suspicion and learning the details. The Pakistani government was a tremendous service to the Brits in the action.
Nice to know the NSA is looking at British Citizens!
24 Arrests and counting, but we got them before the event. Theres heaps of cynicsm over the US reaction to 9/11 here, but, I visited ground zero to pay my respects last year and cried my eyes out in the middle of new york. God forbid that it should ever hapen again. But, it probably will cos our dumbass government lets people preach racial hatred in the streets over here, especially if they are from a "minority"
24 Arrests and counting, but we got them before the event. Theres heaps of cynicsm over the US reaction to 9/11 here, but, I visited ground zero to pay my respects last year and cried my eyes out in the middle of new york. God forbid that it should ever hapen again. But, it probably will cos our dumbass government lets people preach racial hatred in the streets over here, especially if they are from a "minority"
They want to be on both sides of that fence. You know if it had happened, you would have heard "Why didn't they know? The government is not doing enough to protect us."
theWeezL said:
No! I like my reality better!
Seriously, I'm not entirely sure what you meant, and I am sure that there are other reasons libs don't want the spying (Like, Bush likes it so they have to hate it, etc) but I do think that some of them have some shady stuff goin on and they don't wanna risk bein found out. No proof, just my thoughts
Yup. Sad, huh?isnms said:
Come on Nick, you're talking trash here. The tip came from a British citizen. Domestic surveillance contributed nada, zip, zero. And what was done after the tip was mainly done in the UK which isn't a republic nor has anywhere near the constitutional freedoms we're supposed to enjoy. In fact domestic US surveillance has been responsible for almost every fiasco we've had. The four guys from Buffalo NY who were wrongly accused and had their lives ruined for example. And you don't find it odd that we knew about this for months and yet nothing was done until yesterday? It appears you don't know when you're being manipulated. And the liberal versus conservative stuff gets old. I'm about as conservative as they come but come on, use a little logic for once.
Yesterday was a joke. A pilot I know had his toothpaste lifted by the TSA monkeys who we're whipped into a frenzy by this moronic directive. As he handed it over this pilot (who is a Federal Flight Deck Officer) asked the TSA guy "do you want my gun too?" Mass confusion then occurred and several other TSA personnel and supervisors had to be called. It took them 20 minutes to resolve this before the toothpaste was returned. We won't even get into why, if liquids could be explosive, the TSA was dumping tubs of confiscated possible explosives into garbage cans inside crowded airports. Give me a break.
That aside, terrorism almost by definition doesn't involve an act being accomplished. All it requires is fear. You may want to read the exhaustively researched Cato Institute paper by Ohio State University on the subject. The case against being afraid of terrorism is laid out in irrefutable logic, backed with credible, documented statistics about terrorism's risks. From the number of fatalities produced by terrorism to the trends in terrorism death to the fact that almost no one has ever died from a military biological agent to the fact that poison gas and dirty bombs in the field do only minor damage -- this paper is the most reassuring and infuriating piece of analysis I've read since September 11th. It clearly proves the "keep 'em scared" BS blatantly employed by the morons in this administration.
The bottom line is, terrorism doesn't kill many people. Even in Israel you're four times more likely to die in a car wreck than as a result of a terrorist attack. In the USA you need to be more worried about lightning strikes than terrorism. The point of terrorism is to create terror and by cynically convincing us that our very countries are at risk from terrorism our politicians have delivered utter victory to the terrorists.
The shock and tragedy of September 11 does demand a focused and dedicated program to confront international terrorism and to attempt to prevent a repeat. But it seems sensible to suggest that part of this reaction should include an effort by politicians, officials, and the media to inform the public realistically about the terrorist context instead of playing into the hands of terrorists by frightening the population. What is needed is some sort of convincing, coherent, informed answer to a central question: "How worried should I be?" Instead the message the nation has received so far from Homeland Security is: "Be scared; be very, very scared -- but go on with your lives." Such messages have led many people to develop what Leif Wenar of the University of Sheffield has aptly labeled "a false sense of insecurity."
I'm tempted to call the current administration's policy pure manipulation except it's more likely a combination of manipulation for political gain coupled with astonishing incompetence. You can read the paper here:
http://tinyurl.com/mw9ty
Course, none of that helps if you're one of the extremely unlikely few to fall victim to an attack so you may also want to read these two articles about studies concerning the history of suicide acts and why for the first time in history they're as prevalent as they are. In other words, what motivates many of these "terrorists":
http://tinyurl.com/lbkye
http://tinyurl.com/zy3tg
It's a myth the bad guys hate us for our "freedoms and way of life", something that keeps being promoted by our great leader. History has proven time and again people are driven to such acts by the same few perceptions. Perceptions that, should the shoe be on the other foot, would be shared by a majority of other peoples....including Americans.
Finally, how's it feel to be in a minority?: http://tinyurl.com/flp8u
I guess the rest of us must be idiots. Your boy's time is coming and I for one will take great pleasure in seeing him hit rock bottom. One can only hope he and his cronies will finally be held accountable for their crimes.
Yesterday was a joke. A pilot I know had his toothpaste lifted by the TSA monkeys who we're whipped into a frenzy by this moronic directive. As he handed it over this pilot (who is a Federal Flight Deck Officer) asked the TSA guy "do you want my gun too?" Mass confusion then occurred and several other TSA personnel and supervisors had to be called. It took them 20 minutes to resolve this before the toothpaste was returned. We won't even get into why, if liquids could be explosive, the TSA was dumping tubs of confiscated possible explosives into garbage cans inside crowded airports. Give me a break.
That aside, terrorism almost by definition doesn't involve an act being accomplished. All it requires is fear. You may want to read the exhaustively researched Cato Institute paper by Ohio State University on the subject. The case against being afraid of terrorism is laid out in irrefutable logic, backed with credible, documented statistics about terrorism's risks. From the number of fatalities produced by terrorism to the trends in terrorism death to the fact that almost no one has ever died from a military biological agent to the fact that poison gas and dirty bombs in the field do only minor damage -- this paper is the most reassuring and infuriating piece of analysis I've read since September 11th. It clearly proves the "keep 'em scared" BS blatantly employed by the morons in this administration.
The bottom line is, terrorism doesn't kill many people. Even in Israel you're four times more likely to die in a car wreck than as a result of a terrorist attack. In the USA you need to be more worried about lightning strikes than terrorism. The point of terrorism is to create terror and by cynically convincing us that our very countries are at risk from terrorism our politicians have delivered utter victory to the terrorists.
The shock and tragedy of September 11 does demand a focused and dedicated program to confront international terrorism and to attempt to prevent a repeat. But it seems sensible to suggest that part of this reaction should include an effort by politicians, officials, and the media to inform the public realistically about the terrorist context instead of playing into the hands of terrorists by frightening the population. What is needed is some sort of convincing, coherent, informed answer to a central question: "How worried should I be?" Instead the message the nation has received so far from Homeland Security is: "Be scared; be very, very scared -- but go on with your lives." Such messages have led many people to develop what Leif Wenar of the University of Sheffield has aptly labeled "a false sense of insecurity."
I'm tempted to call the current administration's policy pure manipulation except it's more likely a combination of manipulation for political gain coupled with astonishing incompetence. You can read the paper here:
http://tinyurl.com/mw9ty
Course, none of that helps if you're one of the extremely unlikely few to fall victim to an attack so you may also want to read these two articles about studies concerning the history of suicide acts and why for the first time in history they're as prevalent as they are. In other words, what motivates many of these "terrorists":
http://tinyurl.com/lbkye
http://tinyurl.com/zy3tg
It's a myth the bad guys hate us for our "freedoms and way of life", something that keeps being promoted by our great leader. History has proven time and again people are driven to such acts by the same few perceptions. Perceptions that, should the shoe be on the other foot, would be shared by a majority of other peoples....including Americans.
Finally, how's it feel to be in a minority?: http://tinyurl.com/flp8u
I guess the rest of us must be idiots. Your boy's time is coming and I for one will take great pleasure in seeing him hit rock bottom. One can only hope he and his cronies will finally be held accountable for their crimes.
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Well, as someone that travels almost every week, this new "nothing" on the plane deal is a total PITA.
Screw being nice, let's just call this what it is, a holy war, declare war on Islam and let's get to the point of securing our country and the world from this use of terrorists to generate fear.
Not sure I agree with your version of what happened JJ.
The version I've heard was that the NSA develpoed some phone calls, tipped off the Brits with the info, and MI5 then put the muslims in question under surveilence, and even infiltrated the group over time.
The plans were revealed, and the arrests made.
If it had been a drug bust, it never would have even made the news, and they do it all the time. (Basic police work that is.)
I agree the TSA is mostly a joke, and there as window dressing to lull the masses into thinking that flying is safe from terrorists. (Right, nothing is safe untill the last islamic terrorists are feeding the maggots.)
We need to do like effective security forces do the world over.
Profile everyone that wants to travel.
Teach profiling to the officers, so they know what to look for, and how to question effectively so we can determine if the 80 year old lady is a threat, or just trying to knit herself a sweater.....
I think better forms of ID need to be designed, and put into place so that we can prove who we are, and bypass the lines and other crap. I'd gladly have a background check done on me, and submit to radom searches of my bags if they would acknolege that I travel 43+ weeks a year, and see more of the TSA and airport staff than I do my own family it seems.
If the muslems don't like the extra searches, and they don't like being treated like terrorists, they need to make dang sure they are not teaching and supporting terrorists in any way, shape or form. Right now, they are quietly allowing, or actively supporting the Jihad, and in my opinion, that makes them enemy combatants in this war.
Screw being nice, let's just call this what it is, a holy war, declare war on Islam and let's get to the point of securing our country and the world from this use of terrorists to generate fear.
Not sure I agree with your version of what happened JJ.
The version I've heard was that the NSA develpoed some phone calls, tipped off the Brits with the info, and MI5 then put the muslims in question under surveilence, and even infiltrated the group over time.
The plans were revealed, and the arrests made.
If it had been a drug bust, it never would have even made the news, and they do it all the time. (Basic police work that is.)
I agree the TSA is mostly a joke, and there as window dressing to lull the masses into thinking that flying is safe from terrorists. (Right, nothing is safe untill the last islamic terrorists are feeding the maggots.)
We need to do like effective security forces do the world over.
Profile everyone that wants to travel.
Teach profiling to the officers, so they know what to look for, and how to question effectively so we can determine if the 80 year old lady is a threat, or just trying to knit herself a sweater.....
I think better forms of ID need to be designed, and put into place so that we can prove who we are, and bypass the lines and other crap. I'd gladly have a background check done on me, and submit to radom searches of my bags if they would acknolege that I travel 43+ weeks a year, and see more of the TSA and airport staff than I do my own family it seems.
If the muslems don't like the extra searches, and they don't like being treated like terrorists, they need to make dang sure they are not teaching and supporting terrorists in any way, shape or form. Right now, they are quietly allowing, or actively supporting the Jihad, and in my opinion, that makes them enemy combatants in this war.
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Adjuster said:
Right on to that. Granted the entire muslim population isn't backing or supporting radical islam, those that do oppose it are not speaking out against it enough. Just heard that like 45% of Brittish muslims think 9/11 was a conspiracy created by the US and Israel. That's really not helping their case.
Also in I think JJ's last link, it talked about Bush's approval rating and the GOP's rating dropping, while I don't disagree with that, it also says (and you hear people talk about this and see it in the news) that people are talking about voting for Democrats in protest. GREAT! Let's fuck ourselves on the opposite side of the spectrum...how smart! Instead of a party that'll just go start a war and then not let the military do it's job to it's fullest extent, let's put a party in power that IMHO would not fight at ALL.
This goes back to a point I made in another thread. Why the hell does it have to be either Republican or Democrat? I think it's well established that both sides are incompetent, haven't really represented the people of this country, and bicker between each other trying to punish the party that loses control of congress or the presidency.
If people want to fucking protest, vote 3rd party candidates into office and get rid of these two shitty ruling parties.
Damn, I had another point, but I had to answer the phone and forgot...