CNC career advice

[Facime]

Ok, I figured we have a few CNC guys here so its as good a place as any to ask. Im sick of what I do. The general public is SOO fuckin stupid when it comes to computers and having to deal with them on a daily basis has gotten severely depressing. I only got into computers as a side result of wanting to find something different after 12+ years running offset printing equipment.

I have been trying to decide what new path to take towards a new career and Ive been thinking seriously about a CAD/CNC career. I have a strong computer background obviously, and as a car guy (and a press operator for many years) I understand machines better than the average joe. I would like to end up working with automotive applications or prototyping. Im willing to start at the bottom and work up as I go as well. The local community college offers a certificate program (unfortunately I would have to transfer to a different school to get a 2 year in it) in CNC operation. As I understand its less focused on the programming aspect of it and is more of a general knowledge/hands on type program.

I suspect after completeing the program I could expect to find work on the production floor setting up (or cleaning up ) equipment but I also understand as entry level work the pay is liveable (I live on next to nothing right now and my total monthly expenses are less than most of you spend on one car payment).

I would like to hear from people with machine shop experience or CAD operators on what kind of job it is, or advice on what to specialize in or avoid. My biggest concern is that Im going to get bored pretty easily. Im also considering this as possibly only a career for a few years to get an understanding of the industry and then progress into my own custom parts business.

Ideas? feedback?

 

[Pr0ject_Supra]

My grandpa owns a tool and die shop up here in Tn and my advice is to get familiar with as many machining tools as you can. Seems like people go through the school and learn only the computer side of machining but put them on the shop floor and they can't even make basic blocks of metal. Most smaller machine shops won't have specialized jobs, meaning the CNC isn't the only thing you will be expected to know how to operate to get the job done.

 

[Facime]

Ive been around tools and machines pretty much from the time I got my first tricycle, lol.

Thats good advice though. I experienced that same thing back when I learned printing. What I learned in school was nothing like what I needed to know in the production world. I was fortunate to get hired for my first job by a guy willing to "re-teach" me real world application of the theory I learned in class.

The certificate program Im looking at is FAR more hands on machine tool than the computer side of it. If I were to take the AAS program it goes more into the computers. It seems to me the cert program focuses more on the shop floor.

What I thought I might do is get the 1 year cert, find a job, then continue to complete the 2 year at night. That way I get hands on real world experience while Im delving into the C side of CNC.

 

[americanjebus]

Worked in a machine shop for a while and less than a third of the work actually involved a computer. You really just design the part you want in solidworks (or its designed for you by the engineer) and export it to something like fiji i think it was... The program just picks tool sizes and tool paths. Then you physically have to go out and just make fixtures for your parts and just sit around pushing a green button from then on.

Good sides of CNC work, is it pays well if you really KNOW what your doing and an AAS wont really teach you shit. You just have to go out and work in a place for a couple years to really get the "feel" of machine shop work. Learning how to work with manual lathes and drill presses is needed to really know how the CNC is going to react to certain setups.

Problem, would be that your work will be entirely demand based. Just before i quit orders just dropped and sales fell like a rock tied to an anchor. Plan on being laid off when orders get slim because you will be first on the scrap list. Oh yea, its REALLY tedious and repetitive work.

 

[Facime]

Oh yea, its REALLY tedious and repetitive work.

Yeah, I kind of figured it would be alot like printing in that regard.

 

[MkIII_Jeff]

I have several friends in machine shops. Once you get really going you are expected to supply your own tools, which gets really expensive for the good shit. I was told to stay out as advancement is minimal. If you are good you can top out quick with the only step up being opening your own place.

With all of that in mind I am still looking to get into it but is proving damn near impossible.

 

[gaboonviper85]

i went to votech in highschool for machining....been machining ever sense...knowing computers really isnt going to help you do much when it comes to programing machines or useing cnc machines as they run on g code or m code....some machines run there own electronics like mazac n such.....so really computers and the like for computers has absolutly nothing to do with cnc world...you gotta love machineing and you need to have some basic skills in manual machining before you can program a cnc worth a damn....the company i work for (EF Percision inc in willow grove pa) is a very very hightech shop with serious machines.....

if you really want some advice id be happy to point you in the right direction....and as far as the own tools go...yes you will want to collect some tools just because they are good to have your own cause shop tools dont get respected....most shops dont expect you to get the tools overnight so dont stress it.


oh and take all your knowledge of computers and throw it out the window if you want to program cnc....they have nothing to do with eachother to be honest...

know you cant see it but this is the lathe department at work with 14 cnc lathes....milling department is much bigger.

 

[dirtlord420]

i took some classes in high school for it. 3 years worth. am so glad i didnt stick with it. first its getting to easy to run the machines. so your more likely to make less. back in school we were using surfcam. that pretty much where you scan the blue print in and it makes the G and M codes. i also had two friends who worked in a machine shop only made around 8 bucks and hour. they wernt do much, but still. plus you really need to use the manual machines before you start on cnc. you anit going to learn shit in two years of school. my main concern was they can send the program to say mexico. then have cheap labor do it. one of the main reasons why i didnt stick with it.

now am a hardwood lumber inspector. making pretty good money and a great job. plus there is only one school that teaches that. there not that many people that know how to do it.

 

[bmoss85]

i dont know how jobs are were you are at, but there always seems to bo jobs for cnc programmers and operators where i live. i went to school for race car technology and it didnt involve any cnc only manual machining. i love machining but i cant find a job thats worth a shit because i didnt have any cnc experience. you get paid quite a bit more for knowing how to program than just operate.

from some people that i know in the industry it can get kind of boring, so you really need to love it. if you like the aspect of just designing stuff you could always do AAS or BS in mechanical engineering.

 

[Facime]

thanks for the responces guys, certainly something to think about.


As I said I mainly thought about this path as a way out of computer repair/customer service, and into custom automotive applications. Yes, Bmoss, there are always cnc jobs listed here. In a time where decent paying blue collar work is hard to find that says something.

I dont know if any of you know anything about offset printing but its very much like you describe machine tool. Its dirty, boring/repetitive, and doesnt require a lot of brains. The best thing I can say about it though, is that if you stay with it and become skilled then it pays very good.

I did however...hate it after 12+ years. I am seriously rethinking any plans that might take me down that path all over again.

 

[MkIII_Jeff]

The friends I have that can program the machines well make 20+/hr. The ones the are also in the inspection teams make closer to 25/hr, and the one that just opened his own shop was making over 30/hr before moving on.

All the places I have talked to would only start me at ~9/hr due to lack of experience. I can't live on that little anymore.

 

[SilverSupraT]

I 'kind of' work in a machine shop. I lucked out really and my job is perfect for me. Went from production floor monkey for the company, then got into test development, then into CAD work for that department, then finally a split between CAD/CAM work and building stuff in the machine shop. All in about 3 years.

I probably just have a huge ego but I'm actually better at machining than at least half of the other guys I work with just because a) I had a EXTREMELY knowledgable mentor b) I can absorb and retain that kind of info easily c) my brain thinks like you would machine stuff. I have ZERO years of schooling in machining but was lucky and able to prove my worth. I'm going back to school now to become a ME so they will be forced to pay me more, or I'll just get another job, but I'm making decent money at ~15/hr. The best part is that I work in prototype machining so the work is rarely boring and thanks to the company's success I wouldn't have to worry about being laid off for probably 15 more years at least!

I also wanted to say that what others have already said. Learning the CNC setup, machining, whatever is all good but it's very difficult to program efficiently if you don't have experience in manual machining. Techincally I've been machining less than 6 months so I'm still learning plenty as far as proper feeds/speeds, tooling, materials, etc. It takes a while but if you love it then it's not so bad. Definitely the best job I've ever had!

 

[Facime]

^^ good to know not everyone in the field hates their job, lol.


I applied for a special intensive training program in a completely different field today. I have to wait a week to find out if I can get in, if I do I will explain, but until then no sence getting excited.

CNC is my back up plan.

 

[americanjebus]

Honestly, your worth more if you know the expensive machines best. Where i worked i was there for shit........... 3 weeks before i was editing programs and doing setups on the little Fadal machines they had, but the floor manager that was training me was getting payed $25+ per hour because he knew the programs on the Mori Seiki's, the Mazaks, Fadals, etc. really really well. The big money comes from having a clear understanding and experience in manual machine work. My boss didnt get in the office and behind a desk until he had 40 years experience and he was still out on the floor doing the dirty work.

This may be interesting to you or maybe not, but there was a former employee where i worked that bought a $30-40k HAAS cnc machine and put it in his garage for personal use/profit. When the company he worked for was stacked up on $1000+ parts they bleed their surplus $40 orders to him. He simply sat in his garage with his wife running small simple parts for a good commission, say $3 per part and averaged something like $600 a day. These orders only really lasted him 3-4 months out of the year but he payed off the machine in about 2 years and has been pocketing the rest for around 5.

 

[Facime]

yes, if nothing else it would cool to be able to do what Ian does at home with his setup.

 

[bmoss85]

machining is something you really have to love i think. i love machining and ill probably go back to school to learn cnc. i myself find a lot of satisfaction in turning a raw piece of material into something useful.

 

[SilverSupraT]

I <3 the Mori Seiki we have. If it were up to me I would only run that. But I'm 2nd in line to the guy that taught me what I know haha. Maybe they'll go pick up another one for me to run all the time

A guy I used to work with went and got his own Haas too and he's doing work for...whoever will pay him. He probably should have a gotten a little more settled with jobs before quitting his regular job though. I'm sure once it picks up he'll be fine, I just wouldn't want to deal with any sort of stress related to machining.