Cheap ring gap filer, bad idea?

[Jaguar_5]

I went to Napa today and after talking to one of the machine shop guys and looking at the catalogue, he has the same cheap ring filers, that looked exactly like the two seen here:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO-66785&N=700+115&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM-906795&N=700+115&autoview=sku

They both started at like $100 :aigo:

I found what looks like the same one again for even less!

Almost looks like you could rig it up to a dremel easily! Probably would spin it way too fast though

But he said: "these are probably made in tawain, and by the time you get to the fourth ring you'll wonder why you bought it. Also it might cause problems in the combustion chamber because of an uneven cut because it's hard to crank with one hand, and compress the ring properly with the other"

Not a perfect quote, but close enough

Thoughts please? I'd like to order it today if it'll work, gotta get ir done! :biglaugh:

 

[SevenMKIII]

Weird, I was watching the Twins Turbo 1000hp Supra build on youtube and they set each ring clamped on a bench clamp with the gap end parellel to the table and just filed with what looked like a finger nail file. Did the same for mine and just installed them all yesterday. I figure if it worked for them it might as well work for me when I'm only shooting for like 1/3 of their power.

-Chris

 

[lintlars]

you are only supposed to file one side anyways and use the other side for squareness referance.

 

[IJ.]

I use the top one

You DON'T want it hooked up to a dremel as a lot of it will be feel and the 2nd ring is MUCH softer so it's too easy to remove too much!

 

[JustAnotherVictim]

Let me have that when you're done Jag.
How far off was your gap?

 

[IJ.]

Ric: Aftermarket rings are usually +5 thou

 

[Jaguar_5]

you are only supposed to file one side anyways and use the other side for squareness referance.

Really? Hmmm can I get a confirmation on this from someone? *nudges IJ*

Thanks IJ, that's the one I'll buy!
Gotta order another set of circlips for my wiseco's, as I launched one across the garage lol, and summit carries them

JaV (are you ric?) You can buy it for less then I paid when I'm done
The 1st ring's were all close to .016, the second rings were all around .012-.013, I'm shooting for .020 for the tops and .022 for the second's

 

[JustAnotherVictim]

Ok, I think I completely understand this ring gapping now.

Yea I'm Ric.

 

[IJ.]

Jag: If you're filing by hand yes you keep one end as a reference but the whole idea of the filer is that it squares the ends.

As I said it's easy to remove too much so my method is to remove a little test fit in the bore using a stock piston upside down with all but the oil rings removed to square it in the bore.

Once done I use a fine stone in the Dremel to dress the sharp edges of the ring.

 

[Jaguar_5]

Ok that makes sense!
I've been squaring it in the bore using the bare wiseco (should i put on the oil rings? Would it be wise to use my old stock piston instead?) assembled on a rod, i made a tape mark to push it down as far as the tsrm recommends before I measure

JaV: It sounds a little daunting on paper, but once you have everything infront if you, with your block next to your workbench where you file to keep re-checking, it's a very simple process! You just have to be precise

 

[IJ.]

Jag: I use an old piston so I don't run the chance of slipping and marking up a good one and I leave the Oil rings on to act as a stop so it's easily repeatable as too high/low in the bore will give a different measurement each time.

 

[Jaguar_5]

Jag: I use an old piston so I don't run the chance of slipping and marking up a good one and I leave the Oil rings on to act as a stop so it's easily repeatable as too hig/low in the bore will give a different measurement each time.

Aah, good tip! that'll be much easier to measure, now that I don't have to push it down so far in the bore Tsrm calls for about 110mm iirc!

I'd say this thread pretty much covers everything needed for anyone in the future looking up ring end gap filing! Last time i searched there were no results :icon_surp

 

[IJ.]

Jag: I actually have an aluminium dummy I machined up for the 7M as I rebuilt it so many times

 

[Jaguar_5]

Hehe we all owe you indefinitely from the amount we've learned from your mistakes!!

I'd like to give BIG UPS to Wiseco & Summit racing, for having awesome customer service! Ordered the filer and some spirolox circlips yesterday, the circlips were backordered, but the filer was shipped out early today!

I decided to call wiseco, they're sending me a pair of clips tomorrow, without any charge! I was surprised when he never asked me for billing info :biglaugh: Summit quickly cancelled my order and apologized they couldn't get them to me fast enough, It's always a great feeling working with companies who give a shit about their customers!

 

[IJ.]

Jag: It's just many years of experience doing this I stopped making basic mistakes years/decades ago.

The 7M has a few oddball traits and it's just been a matter of learning what it wants/likes when pushed to it's limits, a lot of this isn't required for low hp builds but is just good practice to do just in case.

 

[Koenigturbo]

rent one

 

[sponsored1]

The cheap ring gap filers are exactly what they are. cheap. Its hard to get the consistancy and accuracy you can get with a better machine. My filer was over $600, but very accurate and it uses a diamond wheel where the cheaper ones use a sandpaper type or a stone wheel. One of the better filers that isnt too expensive is the pro-form one.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRO-66765&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Now obviously no one is gonna buy one if your only planning on building one engine, but for accuracy and time, there is no comparison. It takes me about 10 mins to file a complete set of rings. And one thing to look out for is when your done filing, deburr the edges. You don't want to scratch your cylinders.

Also one other thing that is most overlooked is that in order for rings to be gapped 100%, they must be gapped with a torque plate on the engine. A torque plate will change the shap and size of the tops of the bores by as much as .001 or more. .001 different in bore size will change your ring gaps by .00314. Your accurate ring gaps become not so accurate anymore without the use of a plate. Just a couple things to keep in mind. Everyone tries to be as precise as they can, but most of the time, without special equipment, it's futile.

 

[IJ.]

And if you're being really anal about it don't forget to bolt the cam tensioner pully in place to 36ft/lbs as it deforms cyl #1 by half a thou (Of course you've had the motor bored with it in place along with the Tq plate)

Sorry this is a bit tongue in cheek as there comes a point of diminishing returns