if you had too much vacuum in your crankcase... wouldnt the only source be where the pcv tubes connect to the tb....??
Burning oil and smoking after fresh rebuild!
- Thread starter thinhman
- Start date
So I'm starting to doubt it's my rings. I went to check my oil level right before I flush for my 500 mark and it reads low on the dipstick. I flush and poor the oil into approximately 4 quarts of oil. I then go to fill it and with 5 quarts it hits the full mark on the dipstick and for 6 it goes double the full mark.
Are these readings correct? If it is then this rules out the dipstick problem.
Some more diagnosing I found oil ALL up in the airbox from the intake......
After shutting off the car from runnig a bit, I could hear drip drip drip. Now my spark plug valley 5 + 6 are filled with oil. Could that drip drip be the oil dripping from the head to the piston? Is that possible with the spark plugs in?
Are these readings correct? If it is then this rules out the dipstick problem.
Some more diagnosing I found oil ALL up in the airbox from the intake......
After shutting off the car from runnig a bit, I could hear drip drip drip. Now my spark plug valley 5 + 6 are filled with oil. Could that drip drip be the oil dripping from the head to the piston? Is that possible with the spark plugs in?
The dripping you hear could just be dripping back in the oil pan. If the plugs are covered in oil you have to change, fix the valve cover gaskets. Make sure of how much oil you are loosing. Check it everyday for a while. Oil in the intake is normal as long as it isn't excessive, that is from the PVC system. A lot is caused from blowby. Have you done a compression test yet?
Okay so I've stop puffing smoke excessively but I am still losing PLENTY of oil. I have not gotten around to that compression test yet; been really busy with school/work and shit.
Anyways, I fill up about every 1-2 days of a quart. I am running straight 30w valvoline and about to make the change to 5w30 as I am about to hit my 1500 mile mark for my rebuild. I am still losing lots of oiL!! But I do not see it going anywhere.
I've called a few mechanics I've dealt with in the past and they all say it would be my rings not properly seated right. Even a compression test will not tell you anything about burning oil; they said that I could get good numbers from the test but still have oil getting by.
I want to eliminate EVERY possibility of oil loss before I declare the rings bad. I do not see excess smoke anymore and I have no physical leak. I have check all the seals EXCEPT rear main. Will get to that one soon. Valley 5 + 6 are filled with oil and I know that is most likely from the valve gaskets. I have replaced valve gaskets during the rebuild so I might pull the covers and FIPG it. Is there a chance my rear main could be bad and leak oil into the clutch area?
Or perhaps leak down from the back of the head onto the tranny? Remember I'm losing a quart every day, 2 if I'm lucky. So that's a lot of oil. It doesn't seem like I'm burning it otherwise I'd see smoke? Someone can chime in. This is making a big hole in my wallet.
EVEN IF it is PCV related, where in the world would that QUART of oil go????? It's like I have an oil thief. I understand if I had to fill up every week or so...but I'm filling up every other day.
Anyways, I fill up about every 1-2 days of a quart. I am running straight 30w valvoline and about to make the change to 5w30 as I am about to hit my 1500 mile mark for my rebuild. I am still losing lots of oiL!! But I do not see it going anywhere.
I've called a few mechanics I've dealt with in the past and they all say it would be my rings not properly seated right. Even a compression test will not tell you anything about burning oil; they said that I could get good numbers from the test but still have oil getting by.
I want to eliminate EVERY possibility of oil loss before I declare the rings bad. I do not see excess smoke anymore and I have no physical leak. I have check all the seals EXCEPT rear main. Will get to that one soon. Valley 5 + 6 are filled with oil and I know that is most likely from the valve gaskets. I have replaced valve gaskets during the rebuild so I might pull the covers and FIPG it. Is there a chance my rear main could be bad and leak oil into the clutch area?
Or perhaps leak down from the back of the head onto the tranny? Remember I'm losing a quart every day, 2 if I'm lucky. So that's a lot of oil. It doesn't seem like I'm burning it otherwise I'd see smoke? Someone can chime in. This is making a big hole in my wallet.
EVEN IF it is PCV related, where in the world would that QUART of oil go????? It's like I have an oil thief. I understand if I had to fill up every week or so...but I'm filling up every other day.
Has to be going somewere. If the rear main is leaking you should see it dripping around the bellhousing, especially if you are loosing that much. You say it's not smoking, has to be leaking somewere. I still suspect rings, and looks like you need to fix the VC gaskets.
You can get a UV dye to put in the oil and see were the leaks are.
You can get a UV dye to put in the oil and see were the leaks are.
Pull your spark plugs and examine them. If you're burning oil they will have gray/white ash buildup all over them. If they come out clean then your rings are probably fine and you're leaking like crazy from somewhere.
Did a compression test and maxxed out at 220 across the board!! Steady hold too, not a fast drop so I'm pretty confident my rings are sealed and seated properly.
There was detonation all over the spark plugs though...so bad the porcelain started to deteriorate as well. I have a feeling oil isn't really getting by from the rings. I suspect the head work. That is the ONLY thing not done by my buddies and I. The valve train is starting to tick and clatter as well. Is it possible the new valve seals did not seat right??? Or maybe just an old valve train about to go out so it does not matter if the seals are new or not?
There was also a lot of oil in the intake manifold as well. PCV system is not clogged and checks out. I still smoke but it's not big puffs; it's a more consistent smoke but subtle enough to not see it through your mirrors.
My plan is to pull the head and inspect everything. Any suggestions before I finalize the decision??
Thanks for everyone's help once again.
EDIT: The plugs/intake/everything else could have been from the previous way the engine was running. I was running 15 BTDC for about ~500 miles and also running very rich and puffed LOTS of smoke. So the plugs and everything else could have been from previous. I am switching to 91 octane to better suit the compression; see if that'll do anything. I need to eliminate more variables.
There was detonation all over the spark plugs though...so bad the porcelain started to deteriorate as well. I have a feeling oil isn't really getting by from the rings. I suspect the head work. That is the ONLY thing not done by my buddies and I. The valve train is starting to tick and clatter as well. Is it possible the new valve seals did not seat right??? Or maybe just an old valve train about to go out so it does not matter if the seals are new or not?
There was also a lot of oil in the intake manifold as well. PCV system is not clogged and checks out. I still smoke but it's not big puffs; it's a more consistent smoke but subtle enough to not see it through your mirrors.
My plan is to pull the head and inspect everything. Any suggestions before I finalize the decision??
Thanks for everyone's help once again.
EDIT: The plugs/intake/everything else could have been from the previous way the engine was running. I was running 15 BTDC for about ~500 miles and also running very rich and puffed LOTS of smoke. So the plugs and everything else could have been from previous. I am switching to 91 octane to better suit the compression; see if that'll do anything. I need to eliminate more variables.
If you're confident that the rings are good then the head is the only other place where oil could get in there. Did you just drop the head on as is from before the rebuild? Are you still consuming the same amount of oil?
No my head was machined by the shop that did my block. It was also given a 3-angled valve job along with new valve seals. But I though perhaps this wouldn't matter if the valve train itself was starting to go out. Yes I am pretty confident about my rings at this point in time. And the head was surfaced in order to mate with the block and my MHG.
My valves are ticking right now so I thought maybe...
Is there any further inspection I can do before I pull the head? That's what seems like the next step to me...
And yes I am consuming probably the same amount of oil? Not sure to be exact but it's a lot of oil. I read my oil by my gauge now. I do not get a reading AT ALL from dipsticks. I tried a few various kinds and it doesn't come out with a reading. I still have yet to lay my hands on a cressida dipstick though.
I try to stay about 40 psi at 3k RPM. My peak is 80 psi, and driving it for two days it'll drop to 40 psi. I fill up a quart and it'll go back up to ~80 ish. Drive for two days or so and it'll drop again. I have a brand new oil pump and shimmed it 5mm (3 washers) if this helps.
My valves are ticking right now so I thought maybe...
Is there any further inspection I can do before I pull the head? That's what seems like the next step to me...
And yes I am consuming probably the same amount of oil? Not sure to be exact but it's a lot of oil. I read my oil by my gauge now. I do not get a reading AT ALL from dipsticks. I tried a few various kinds and it doesn't come out with a reading. I still have yet to lay my hands on a cressida dipstick though.
I try to stay about 40 psi at 3k RPM. My peak is 80 psi, and driving it for two days it'll drop to 40 psi. I fill up a quart and it'll go back up to ~80 ish. Drive for two days or so and it'll drop again. I have a brand new oil pump and shimmed it 5mm (3 washers) if this helps.
That's just bizarre. Was there any oily residue on the sparkplugs? Usually when you have leaking valve stem seals at least one of the plugs will look wet. Can you post a pic of where you dipstick tube mounts to the block? I'm fairly certain that the 7Ms use the same dipstick length regardless of model, only the tube location varies.
I think I might have posted the spark plugs wrong? They were all wet lol. Not just wet from the galley but wet from bottom of the head too. When I pulled out all the plugs they were all soaked in oil.
All the problems point back to the head, but I do not know exactly what I'd be looking for. I just might rebuild another head and swap it over.
Let me try to pull up some dipstick pictures for you by tonight hopefully.
All the problems point back to the head, but I do not know exactly what I'd be looking for. I just might rebuild another head and swap it over.
Let me try to pull up some dipstick pictures for you by tonight hopefully.
Sounds like the shop messed up your valve stem seals or didn't install them. Replacing them without taking the head off is almost impossible so looks like one way or another it's coming apart.
Take it back to the shop that did it and tell them to do it right this time. If you have that much oil loss looks like part of it is leaking, valve covers, and part of it you're burning, stem seals. They can be replaced with the head on, just so much easier to do it with the head off.
I tried replacing the seals with the head still on once. I did two of them and pulled the head off. Way more work than it's worth, IMO.
I'm giving my machinist a call today and see what he thinks. As for valve covers they weren't leaking at all. I just redid them when I went to retorque the head down. I FIPG-ed them and tightened those things down!!
And I'm still losing the same amount of oil so it has to be the head.
And I'm still losing the same amount of oil so it has to be the head.
My friends are mechanics........
Everytime I took to another "professional" to look at, they always tell me it's rings. Without doing further diagnosis; some don't bother.
Now the machinist I went to for my head in the first place, says he'll inspect the head for me. What's wrong with pulling the head...I don't see any harm in doing so?
And yes I do suspect the head so that's the specific area I'm checking. I already ruled out the block; the only thing in the block that comes to mind would be the oil pump.
I bought a brand new oil pump from Driftmotion and shimmed it 5mm worth of washers (3). So it occurs to me that high oil pressure could also be a cause.
Can anyone chime in on oil pressure too high??
Everytime I took to another "professional" to look at, they always tell me it's rings. Without doing further diagnosis; some don't bother.
Now the machinist I went to for my head in the first place, says he'll inspect the head for me. What's wrong with pulling the head...I don't see any harm in doing so?
And yes I do suspect the head so that's the specific area I'm checking. I already ruled out the block; the only thing in the block that comes to mind would be the oil pump.
I bought a brand new oil pump from Driftmotion and shimmed it 5mm worth of washers (3). So it occurs to me that high oil pressure could also be a cause.
Can anyone chime in on oil pressure too high??
Now the machinist I went to for my head in the first place, says he'll inspect the head for me. What's wrong with pulling the head...I don't see any harm in doing so?
There is nothing wrong with pulling the head if you are confident thats where the trouble lies. Although once you remove it and no fault is found, now what? The engine won't run anymore. There are many more tests and steps to diagnose this than you had mentioned in your posts. Good luck with your repair.
There is nothing wrong with pulling the head if you are confident thats where the trouble lies. Although once you remove it and no fault is found, now what? The engine won't run anymore. There are many more tests and steps to diagnose this than you had mentioned in your posts. Good luck with your repair.
...?
You lost me bluepearl, why won't the engine run anymore after I pull the head...?
I'm going to strip the viton off MHG and spray it with copper spray and re-apply after the head is pulled and redone. Did I miss something...??
Either way IF the head is NOT the problem for my oil, my valves are still ticking so he's going to redo my valves for me. Regardless if it solves my problem, it eliminates some more variables.
Well I'm going to try a leakdown if that gets me anywhere and I'm going to flush oil a few times AGAIN and see where I stand with how many quarts I have in the engine when my psi reading is less than 40.
You say there are many more tests and diagnostics; PLEASE enlighten me. I have done my research and most, if not all, do not pertain to me.
You lost me bluepearl, why won't the engine run anymore after I pull the head...?
I'm going to strip the viton off MHG and spray it with copper spray and re-apply after the head is pulled and redone. Did I miss something...??
Either way IF the head is NOT the problem for my oil, my valves are still ticking so he's going to redo my valves for me. Regardless if it solves my problem, it eliminates some more variables.
Well I'm going to try a leakdown if that gets me anywhere and I'm going to flush oil a few times AGAIN and see where I stand with how many quarts I have in the engine when my psi reading is less than 40.
You say there are many more tests and diagnostics; PLEASE enlighten me. I have done my research and most, if not all, do not pertain to me.